Is day trading worth it?

[ExperiencedJoe]

The simplest way to demonstrate skilled tennis playing is to play a game. The best way to demonstrate skilled trading is to put on a trade. Anything else is just ballshit.

There is still no explanation why putting up a trade that has already been entered into the market would affect the trade's performance. That's the excuse given for not showing a trade. Unfortunately, this is going to get the claimant killed on the argument. So, let's see some squirming, before keeling over.

 

[AdrianHagh81]

The simplest way to demonstrate skilled tennis playing is to play a game. The best way to demonstrate skilled trading is to put on a trade. Anything else is just ballshit.

There is still no explanation why putting up a trade that has already been entered into the market would affect the trade's performance. That's the excuse given for not showing a trade. Unfortunately, this is going to get the claimant killed on the argument. So, let's see some squirming, before keeling over.

Well I'm gonna bite and answer this.
Due to the fact that i feel I owe the community here for helping me along the path, albeit with
a lot of misinformation and trolling but hey i guess that's the beauty of ET.


Lets take the NQ for example.

The average bid size on each tick during normal liquid hours is about 30 - 50 contracts (last time i check, I don't trade this frequently).


____|_28___
____|_30___
_31_|______
_28_|______



Say you have an intraday strategy that averages.

Average win : 6 ticks
Average loss : 4 ticks

With a 55% win rate

So you're average ticks per trade comes down to : 1.5 ticks

So what's the strategy max capacity ? probably around the average size of the bid of one tick
which is 30, anymore than that and you'll get slippage that will eat away your profits.

There's probably hundreds of intraday strategies that will work on NQ, but for this specific strategy
it is constrained by the above. hence why retail daytraders seldom share their secret sauce.

now try to imagine what happens when you day trade the more exotic least liquid markets.
since you have a love of cattle try and see the average offer size on LE.

 

[ExperiencedJoe]

Since people in this thread doesn't know how to show a trade (my guess is they don't know how to trade, or they know they will lose), let me demonstrate how it's done:

 

[ExperiencedJoe]

Well I'm gonna bite and answer this.
Due to the fact that i feel I owe the community here for helping me along the path, albeit with
a lot of misinformation and trolling but hey i guess that's the beauty of ET.


Lets take the NQ for example.

The average bid size on each tick during normal liquid hours is about 30 - 50 contracts (last time i check, I don't trade this frequently).


____|_28___
____|_30___
_31_|______
_28_|______



Say you have an intraday strategy that averages.

Average win : 6 ticks
Average loss : 4 ticks

With a 55% win rate

So you're average ticks per trade comes down to : 1.5 ticks

So what's the strategy max capacity ? probably around the average size of the bid of one tick
which is 30, anymore than that and you'll get slippage that will eat away your profits.

There's probably hundreds of intraday strategies that will work on NQ, but for this specific strategy
it is constrained by the above. hence why retail daytraders seldom share their secret sauce.

now try to imagine what happens when you day trade the more exotic least liquid markets.
since you have a love of cattle try and see the average offer size on LE.

Thanks for the explanation, and offering of the secret sauce. Regrettably I can't be bother to give it more than a glance. So precisely what you are saying, I wouldn't have gotten it. The issue isn't whether there are constraints in the market. The issue is why is the constraint being used as a reason for not being able to state a trade that's already in the market ? If the trade is in, who cares if there is a constraint ? Further, how does people knowing a trade that's already in the market affect the trade's performance ? This is another stated fear for not revealing a trade.

 

[AdrianHagh81]

Thanks for the explanation, and offering of the secret sauce. Regrettably I can't be bother to give it more than a glance. So precisely what you are saying, I wouldn't have gotten it. The issue isn't whether there are constraints in the market. The issue is why is the constraint being used as a reason for not being able to state a trade that's already in the market ? If the trade is in, who cares if there is a constraint ? Further, how does people knowing a trade that's already in the market affect the trade's performance ? This is another stated fear of not stating a trade.

broadcasting the entry after the fact won't hurt, but if everybody knows the signal before the entry
you wouldn't be able to get in at a good price.

Your previous post were stating that the market is too big to be constrained by a retail punter.
I just showed you otherwise how it could be depending on the strategy used.

 

[d08]

The key word here is prop shop. Real prop shops teach real edges, the shops that live or die based on the traders profits, not the churn and burn dealers.

Id you don't mind, what's your account size to produce low 6 figures per year in profit consistently?

thanks!

surf

Prop shops give leverage and information tools, they don't teach edges. He developed his stuff pretty much alone as I remember him saying.
My account size varies as I'm using the resources for other things besides trading, it's always 6 figures though, what does that have to do with earning a good living from trading though?

Yes, and there are people making a living playing tennis. With those people, you can find a youtube video showing them doing what they love to do most. As for successful home "traders", where are their youtube videos at ?

Imagine you are talking to a successful tennis player and said: can I see your killer serve ? Do you think he will shy away, by saying, ohhh, I can't cos I will give away my "edge". The successful tennis player knows, his edge is from years of hard work, and no matter how many times he shows you, you are not going to get it with less amount of effort than he put in. How many times have you come across an internet "successful trader" who tells you he can't say anything about anything because he's risking giving you free lunch ?

Why would I or anyone else waste my time making YouTube videos? I for one had a nice holiday on a paradise island, beats making YouTube videos if you ask me.

Tennis players make their income from showing off their skill, traders DO NOT. Tennis players wouldn't make a cent without an audience, traders edge will actually diminish with an audience. Your analogy makes absolutely no sense.

 

[ExperiencedJoe]

broadcasting the entry after the fact won't hurt, but if everybody knows the signal before the entry
you wouldn't be able to get in at a good price.

Your previous post were stating that the market is too big to be constrained by a retail punter.
I just showed you otherwise how it could be depending on the strategy used.

The "successful" traders don't even dare broadcast after the fact. Often I offer them the choice of waiting until the trade is in profit before stating it. Still they would not be confident of success.

I don't know there is a constraint or not, but I am happy to take your word for it. But anyone who feels constrained, I will be happy to introduce you to my bucketshop. The shop is extremely confident of winning and will be able to take any size bet you care to carry. If the constraint is you want a particular price and you want it now, well that's not how the market maker works. Live with it or go do something else.

 

[ExperiencedJoe]

Why would I or anyone else waste my time making YouTube videos? I for one had a nice holiday on a paradise island, beats making YouTube videos if you ask me.

The funny thing is I didn't ask you. But I will be happy to accept you can talk more about holidays than trading. You don't know anything about trading, it would be silly for you to talk about it.

 

[d08]

Says the man for whom red arrows on charts act as proof of skill.
Also, anyone who ever traded properly in their lives would understand the liquidity constraints and the example AdrianHagh81 was fairly understandable for anyone with an IQ above 90.

Smart enough people (not you) can and will reverse engineer a strategy based on a few examples, this results in added competition meaning I will have to share the pie with someone else effectively reducing my share to 50% from 100%. With enough people doing it there won't be any more pie for me. Clear enough for you?

 

[ExperiencedJoe]

Smart enough people (not you) can and will reverse engineer a strategy based on a few example

Indeed, I can reverse engineer a strat. But since you don't have one, I would be wasting my time.