Is day trading worth it?

[butterfacetrader]

My experience is investment bankers and interior designers have the same attitudes of superiority. The goal is to make you feel like you can't do it yourself and you need their help and that they are being generous in providing it. It's a tactic to sell a service that doesn't really exist.

I get what you're trying to say but ibankers have the establishment behind them. They may have huge egos and play 'hard to get', but behind them is the firm who has capital and the rollodex to call ppl to make things happen. So in some ways they are your door to financing your company.

As for interior designers, yeah I guess. I'd say they are more of: if you don't have the time to do it yourself shopping around, then you'd hire one of them and pay them to help you figure it out so you don't have to. Like breakfast. Sunny side up, fried ham and toast with butter. Anyone can do this stuff at home and the quality will match the best places. Yet people pay for it. Some are just lazy. They wake up, shower, get changed and want to eat without doing the work cooking.

 

[failed_trad3r]

The only honest vendor i have ever met was 100% honest from the start. i don't trust the grey ones consequently.

I don't even understand why one would post a single number P&L without reference to the surroundings.

On how much money, trading how many contracts etc.

i would understand if one had a trollish personality. But its not consistent.

 

[sellindexvol66]

WRBTRADER,

not going to quote your long winded nonsense..but will partially respond.

i'll always give credit to those who post a PnL. (assumption on my part is that its real)

personally i loved IB portfolio analysis showing quarters, yr (truly the best way to highlight ability or lack thereof..also i am no longer with IB) ...speaking of; i have posted more quarter, EOY analysis on ET than anyone in multi yr p/l threads.

so, to the thread topic..yes u can make money daytrading; and do so for many yrs...i just do not think u can buy a plan and do so. it took me in my 23 plus yrs every bit of 5-8 yr to make it big.

setting aside the blotters...as pigsy points out..and many others..its the arrogance that gets some guys worked up. of course system sellers use tactics like that as has recently been pointed out.

anyway if she/he with their thousands of posts does help someone; great..but u can bet there is far more to the story imo. there is zero way as a trader myself..that i can post as much as some of these people and actually make the living i do. regarding DB, i'm satisfied his agenda/trading ability is fully exposed for what it really is. too bad the thread got OT due to these people.

 

[convexx]

First of all there is no such thing as an edge for retail traders .
Now nodoji and db and the like are merely bloggers , not traders , i wouldn't call them traders anyway , and a 1 month P&L wont prove anything , 30% plus of fx retail traders are profitable in any Q , being profitable for a month or 2 or 10 proves nothing , the keyword is consistency .

You should be asking yourselves why ND would produce one day of PNL with nothing to support whether it is sim or production. She can screenshot that worthless figure but not her PA report from IB? Further, who is going to show their "average" win? You're going to comb through your best days... so $1,300?

Believing a word of it is an IQ test.

 

[tiddlywinks]

First of all there is no such thing as an edge for retail traders .
Now nodoji and db and the like are merely bloggers , not traders , i wouldn't call them traders anyway , and a 1 month P&L wont prove anything , 30% plus of fx retail traders are profitable in any Q , being profitable for a month or 2 or 10 proves nothing , the keyword is consistency .

5-year-com-bine, 5-year-com-bine, woot woot woot!

 

[butterfacetrader]

Paper accounts are useless. So different when you have real money on the line. </br > </br > For jokes I run a paper account alongside my real. I try out strategies or do things I normally would never risk my real capital doing. Funny thing is sometimes my paper account does a lot better than my real account. But there is moral hazard with paper accounts. You simply don't care. You can take massive positions, or do something so speculative that its no different to gambling on pure dumb luck. Sometimes when you're betting your real money, theres just no way you enter some positions. But of course sometimes these spec positions turn out to be real winners. But you get what you pay for. They are spec for a reason and could have gone the other way. Going the right way is nothing but dumb luck.</br > </br >

 

[cornix]

Yes. There are several in the trading industry as well and that's completely fine.

The difference is that those actually offer transparency and are honest about not trading or even being a failure at trading, while dbphoenix and others take on the role of guru and teacher pretending to be wildly successful at trading when they most likely are net losers.

They may not even get a monetary benefit from it (I doubt dbphoenix gets rich selling his ebook), but they get to feel important and get recognition for their "work". The neophytes are of course easily impressed and amazed that succesful guru traders are using all their free time to teach them.

If only they put in the hours and put together a plan...

That post made me wonder, does history know any famous trading mentors, who never trade themselves?

 

[dbphoenix]

Now that a representative sampling of the "PnLs Are Proofers" have weighed in, I will point out, AGAIN (click), that this has nothing to do with PnLs (or trading statements or tax returns or whatever) but with trading plans. T-r-a-d-i-n-g P-l-a-n-s. Without the trading plan, the PnL -- as well as anything else alleged to provide "proof" -- is worthless, except perhaps to demonstrate one's facility with photoshopping. And even if it were to do so, what difference would it make? A number tells one nothing about how the result was achieved, and without that, the onlooker is left in the same whatdoIdonow? state that he was in to begin with.

The PnLsAreProofers generate a lot of fog to obscure the fact that they have no trading plans. Rather they wend their way through the trading day by guessing. Not that there's anything wrong with this amongst a group of recreational traders, which, as I said earlier, constitute the bulk of traders who hang out on message boards. But for anyone to take this nonsense seriously is ludicrous.

To become a better trader one must create and develop a trading plan, not just gasp in awe at these alleged PnLs. If one starts from scratch, then, yes, it can take "thousands" of hours (better spent than the thousands of hours one spends hanging out on message boards). But if one is using someone else's plan as a template or starting point for one's own, it need take no more than a few weeks. As far as assessing the rigor of someone else's trading plan, that can be done in an evening. Sometimes five minutes. But the trading plan must exist. And so far, I've seen no evidence that they do, other than those belonging to those who are ironically criticized for not being "real traders".

So to return, again, to the subject of this thread, yes, daytrading is worth it IF one has a thoroughly-tested, consistently-profitable trading plan. If one doesn't, then probably not.

 

[Alpha Trader]

the worst part of daytrading is

having to listen to imbeciles with thick heavy foreign/new york accents/cnbc with its constant sound effects/ reading posts by idiots/

This should help overcome it. If you're not used to foreign tunes, it might take a little getting used to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3vV8vngVDw&index=3&list=PLF40EB9384E70497B

 

[Alpha Trader]

But you're right, no amount of proof is enough when a person's mind is already made up based on their belief.

It has nothing to do with belief. It is an ego issue.

Most people do not make it on this stage. The more proof one produces, the more the other's ego is going to be proven wrong. When the ego is proven wrong beyond the point of no return, the conscious mind has now taken over from the subconscious and it clearly spells out that there is someone out there that has succeeded in doing what you have been trying for months/years.

Unfortunately, and wrongly too, the not yet successful person feels inferior and the bashing starts. There are the few who will accept the success of others, congratulate them and embrace their knowledge. These are the ones that have the highest chance of success.