Is day trading worth it?

green.green said:
I like to do the olympic lifts (snatch and clean and jerk). In my gym we have an Olympic hopeful who puts up huge numbers. Guess what - his coach can't lift anywhere close to the weight he puts up. He is a little guy that has had no real success as a lifter. He injured himself a while back and can't really lift anymore.

Should this guy stop listening to his coach? Should he say put up numbers like me or shut up? Should the Olympic hopeful tell everyone new to the gym to not listen to the coach?

Well the Olympic hopeful has only had one coach. This same little guy whose numbers aren't impressive. The lifter started as a beginner, the coach gave him a methodology to use , the lifter worked his butt off and applied the methodology and has had success.

You can evaluate a methodology independent of the coach just like the lifter. Just like the lifter your numbers start heading in the right direction or they don't. Everything else is superfluous.
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Worst analogy in history.
 
Pigsky said:
Ok guys what do you think of this:

Yesterday Nodoji posted a fake blotter. See link: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3960386&postcount=280

The second price (101.85) is impossible. Price wasn't there at that time.

She admits it later in the thread that it was an April Fool joke.

So if she's faking a blotter now, how do you know she wasn't fudging all her blotters?
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Here is what I would do... not believe her next April 1st!!!

Pigsky... you know what you want to see, so you are looking for any sign that she is a fake and jumping on it. If you looked at the more overwhelming evidence that she isn't, this would bring it in the other direction for you, but you can't see it cause your mind is made up. I know because I had done this my whole life, and I still got issues, but at least I spot them now.

I think you really have to decide that either day trading doesn't work, in which case don't waste your time to come here and spend more time studying, or admit that even though you haven't found a system that works yet, there is one out there. If you believe the second, you have to open your mind up a bit. Don't trust anyone, prove it to yourself.

Drownpruf for all I can see doesn't post his method anywhere.. does he? So we can't evaluate what he does. Nodoji is right to say any working system will be guarded, but price action isn't exactly guarded, its right there on the chart.

If Db posted how much money he makes, would this help you in any way? I see a bit of myself in you and the need for proof is completely justified, but your proof needs to come from what you can prove to yourself. I have done this with SLA and it works.

You keep looking for proof that things don't work, but you gain nothing with this approach except to feel good for giving up trading, which might be what you want so mission accomplished. But if you want to make it work, you need to focus on proof that things do work, so test things out yourself.
 
k p said:
Here is what I would do... not believe her next April 1st!!!

Pigsky... you know what you want to see, so you are looking for any sign that she is a fake and jumping on it. If you looked at the more overwhelming evidence that she isn't, this would bring it in the other direction for you, but you can't see it cause your mind is made up. I know because I had done this my whole life, and I still got issues, but at least I spot them now.

I think you really have to decide that either day trading doesn't work, in which case don't waste your time to come here and spend more time studying, or admit that even though you haven't found a system that works yet, there is one out there. If you believe the second, you have to open your mind up a bit. Don't trust anyone, prove it to yourself.

Drownpruf for all I can see doesn't post his method anywhere.. does he? So we can't evaluate what he does. Nodoji is right to say any working system will be guarded, but price action isn't exactly guarded, its right there on the chart.

If Db posted how much money he makes, would this help you in any way? I see a bit of myself in you and the need for proof is completely justified, but your proof needs to come from what you can prove to yourself. I have done this with SLA and it works.

You keep looking for proof that things don't work, but you gain nothing with this approach except to feel good for giving up trading, which might be what you want so mission accomplished. But if you want to make it work, you need to focus on proof that things do work, so test things out yourself.
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http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?t=122244

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?t=253092

http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?t=244704&highlight=pitchfork

I've got dozens of journals going back to riskarb, atticus and current.
 
Pigsky said:
Because this is a trading forum and people want to know if these big talkers can really trade. Or if they are just trolling for suckers with hindsight ideas that produce either losses or tiny marginal profits in real time trading.

I think some of you guys are so hooked on the idea of making money day trading that you'll believe absolutely anything that is fed to you.
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This line of thinking is what causes so many people to fail. You should only be concerned with whether you can really trade or not. Now if money was exchanging hands I would agree with you but it isn't. There is no difference between reading a PDF from DBP and reading a trading book in your living room.

I'm glad everyone wants to play sheriff but nobody is losing anything more than time. The suckers all end up somewhere. Better that the follow someone that doesn't have a hand in their pocket don't you think?
 
Maybe my analogy is crap but it works for me. The lifter is only competing against himself - against what he has already done. Even at the Olympics lifters know what their numbers are. They are trying to hit a PR on the biggest stage but that's the best they can do - measure themselves against themselves.

This doesn't mean that there aren't tons of douche bags in lifting who think that putting up bigger numbers than someone else means they "win" but IMO they are completely missing the plot.

The Olympic hopeful has no ego about his numbers. He freely gives of his knowledge and time. He is always positive and encouraging. He doesn't need to pull others down to feel good about himself. He has supreme belief in self and that is enough for him.
 
"... Any working system will be guarded".. All market price action is mountain that is hiding gold. A working system can extract that gold with little resource utilization. Money can be made only when price action matches criteria for system.

The problem with day trading day in day out is that very very few systems can extract inefficiency that is present in price action. Even if your correct, your stops could be hit and resume what system implied would happen.

The reason day traders fail is that they seek to fish everyday and catch fish. An expert fisherman will only fish when criteria is right. Time of day, water conditions, lure, weather patterns...

Chris
 
Pigsky said:
Because this is a trading forum and people want to know if these big talkers can really trade. Or if they are just trolling for suckers with hindsight ideas that produce either losses or tiny marginal profits in real time trading.

I think some of you guys are so hooked on the idea of making money day trading that you'll believe absolutely anything that is fed to you.
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I think the proper trader's mindset is a pre-requisite that most lack.

Without this key ingredient, you could fail with a profitable system.
 
green.green said:
Maybe my analogy is crap but it works for me. The lifter is only competing against himself - against what he has already done. Even at the Olympics lifters know what their numbers are. They are trying to hit a PR on the biggest stage but that's the best they can do - measure themselves against themselves.

This doesn't mean that there aren't tons of douche bags in lifting who think that putting up bigger numbers than someone else means they "win" but IMO they are completely missing the plot.

The Olympic hopeful has no ego about his numbers. He freely gives of his knowledge and time. He is always positive and encouraging. He doesn't need to pull others down to feel good about himself. He has supreme belief in self and that is enough for him.
More...


You fancy yourself a pro poker player. I've asked, do you know Joey Commisso?

Speaking of analogies... if you were new to poker and was offered tutelage by someone professing to stealing the blinds 8/10x and earning greater than 10x the buy-in... would you believe it w/o proof? Would you accept it at face-value were the guy playing nickel/dime ($0.05/$0.10) on pokerstars from his living room?







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