I've not looked into that one specifically. But yes I assume kp meant manually. I once heard someone say they can not be programmed. What's up with that? Are the rules not clear enough or..
Maybe I misunderstood.
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Is day trading worth it?
- Thread starter Laissez Faire
- Start date
I've not looked into that one specifically. But yes I assume kp meant manually. I once heard someone say they can not be programmed. What's up with that? Are the rules not clear enough or..
Maybe I misunderstood.
This thread is getting absolutely insane. There are actually people in here claiming that drawing lines on a chart in hindsight is basically the same as doing it in real time. I need some of the kool aid being guzzled in this thread, cause it sure makes trading seem like a piece of cake!!!
This thread is getting absolutely insane. There are actually people in here claiming that drawing lines on a chart in hindsight is basically the same as doing it in real time. I need some of the kool aid being guzzled in this thread, cause it sure makes trading seem like a piece of cake!!!
Here is my explanation, and hopefully I am not too far off in the weeds.
Claims are being made here that all the charts posted are in hindsight, after the day is done. The point I am trying to make is that if you start drawing the lines and placing the trades in real time, you do this not knowing what the outcome will be or how long the move will last. If price follows the line and a change in trend doesn't occur, then this line can be extended and you are kept in the trade.
If you do this to a chart at the end of the day, you can draw in the lines exactly the same, using swing lows and swing highs. Sure you can now see that the line will be broken 10 minutes later since you know where price went, but this doesn't preclude you from drawing it in as you would have had you been doing it in real time.
When you know the rules, you can draw the lines as they are forming in real time. Likewise, when you know the rules, you can draw the lines on the chart at the end of the day in the same fashion. When you prove to yourself that you make many more points than you lose with the end of day charts, and you can be as consistent with how you draw the lines as price unfolds in real time, then you can easily see how you can make money.
How is testing done on supply and demand line systems? Is it manual?
The one being discussed here is a discretionary system so it is manually tested. I don't know enough about programming but I would imagine that it would be quite possible for a decent programmer to create the same rules. You would have to spend enough time studying the system in order to properly code the rules as context is important but the system is well-defined.
I've been on this site since 2002.
You obviously changed your nick, what was it previously if you don't mind me asking?
You obviously changed your nick, what was it previously if you don't mind me asking?
riskarb -> atticus.
... $40k a year? Wut?
... 10 threads on the same topic.
I'll say that drownpruf has a point : though the person is profitable,
obviously the reason about being in trading is to get far more than one
would by going on an entry level normal career ladder and not bothering
much on the job.
I think it will be interesting to see in the 12 months, how these 10
threads turn out : happy or angry...
I'll say that drownpruf has a point : though the person is profitable,
obviously the reason about being in trading is to get far more than one
would by going on an entry level normal career ladder and not bothering
much on the job.
Yeah, mentioned that already.
Considering the risk you're assuming and the hours you put in as an active trader, bearly breaking even or not beating a buy-and-hold strategy is not 'worth it'.
For active trading to be worth it, either day or swing trading or whatever methodology you're utilizing, you should be getting paid for it.
I think deep down inside there is fear that since they couldn't make trading work, they cannot see someone else succeed, especially with a process that isn't all that complex.
How much money have you earned as a trader?
The thing is that consistently profiting from the ever changing markets day in and day out through a wide variety of market conditions is complex and something very few achieve.
I used to be a high level poker player before it became prohibitive to play on-line in the US. I know a fair amount of high level players. Just like trading smart people fail at poker all the time. Just like trading 10% make money. Just like trading you are constantly dealing with uncertainty and the psychological demons involved in uncertainty. Some of the best minds in poker go busto all the time. It is always because of psychology. Although poker is a complex game with a lot of nuance it is not the complexity of the game that causes smart people to go broke. It is a psychological weakness. I believe this is most likely the case with trading as well.
Since this is trading 101 stuff I'm sure you have a well-tested trading plan which includes a means of determining the market cycle. If you do (I don't care) and you are honest with yourself then the only reason you haven't succeeded is psychological. You didn't follow your rules. If you followed your rules to a tee and still failed then you didn't properly test your system. Either way the failure resides with you.
If you can see things this way than DBP or NoDoji or whomever proving profitability won't matter to you. You will either learn to follow your/their rules or you won't. Their/your rules will test out or they won't. This tread is way past helping you determine to swing of day trade. Time to shit or get off the pot.
As a poker player, I'm sure you'll get some benefits from your experience in that game as a trader.
I'd say trading is more complex though. With poker, your probabilities are consistent and the deck of cards is always the same.
In trading, the probabilities and number of cards in the deck is never really known and it changes all the time. Much more complex. More possible outcomes.
Speaking of gurus, I used to be in a free chatroom of a guy who I think is a great trader and who's actively traded for a long period of time. While this guy usually would never make direct calls, he would share his view on the market a lot and guess what, he would be frequently wrong.
This is a guy who's done a LOT of backtesting and has a LOT of experience. I don't know if he's profitable or not. I don't care. I don't think he's ever claimed being rich either. In fact, he would even warn people against trading.
That's why I call BS when people say that as long as you backtest, build a trading plan, etc, you'll be rich and it will be extremely rare to have losing days. Even the BEST in this business have losing WEEKS. But on ET no one loses as long as they learn to draw trendlines and build a trading plan.
I propose that your deduction is too simplistic and that you'll possibly learn that I'm right one day.
As for psychology, that's a whole different field for the vendors. What's easier to sell than teling newbies that the reason they fail is their psychology?
Sure, if you can't pull the trigger or keep making mistakes you would never do in simulator mode, you may have a problem with your psychology, but more often than not, psychology problems stems from not having a real edge or a trading plan and becomes an excuse for that.