Is Capital Punishment ever justified?

[picknclick]

Quote from hapaboy:



Please elaborate on this Illinois example.

Ok...

http://www.talkleft.com/archives/001893.html

The point is that the poor, once arrested for a crime, have almost no chance of receiving competent lawyers. This is due to a number of factors that we can debate all day, but as long as the system is broken we can't keep killing people who may be innocent. It doesn't take much to frame a poor person... especially in the south. Check out this article as well...

http://www.deathrow.at/rick/florida.html

And you can find examples of this kind of stuff going on throughout the U.S.

 

[picknclick]

Quote from MondoTrader:

considering the times we are in, I would like to mention that capital punishment is justfied for TRAITORS in every country in every time throughout history.

If only Mondo had a time machine

We'd live in a utopia.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

"03-12-03 08:24 PM
Is Capital Punishment ever justified?
Please explain your answer.

Besides being in favor of capital punishment for drug dealers, I also am in favor of executing murderers, rapists and child molesters.

And before the subject comes up and so there is no shadow of a doubt as to guilt, let the scenarios be that the perpetrator in question has been linked to the crime either via witnesses/security cameras/self-taped videos and DNA testing.

Furthermore, for those of you worried about costs, i.e. $1 million per capital execution, let us take either the Malaysian method of hanging or the Chinese method of a single bullet to the back of the head and then charging the family for the bullet. Cheap."

Imagine the following scenario.

The brother of hapboy was murdered. The defendant up on murder charges was found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. The prosecution had presented evidence of the witness's guilt that was iron clad. The defendant had confessed. Yet, as a result of a the defense given by the attorney and the case he made, the defendant was allowed to go free due to a not guilty on the basis of temporary insanity verdict.

What was the temporary insanity? The victim of the murder was wearing full arabic gear complete with turban and shouting death to America, laughing about 911 and the tragedy. In a moment of confusion and stress, the defendant snapped, went into a blind rage and violently attacked the hapboy's brother, and choked him to death with his bare hands. The defendant believed hapboy's brother to be a terrorist ready to kill Americans.

It was later discovered that the murder victim, hapboy's brother, was an actor who was preparing for an audition for a role in a movie. He was not an Arab or terrorist supporter at all, he was just acting like one.

The jury was sympathetic to the defendant who killed hapboy's brother. They clearly understood how they might have felt the same way in the situation. They understood that it was not a pattern of negative behavior, just part of the "911" syndrome that is very similar to post traumatic stress syndrome. So they let him go free based on the temporary insanity defense.

So, the murderer who confessed to the killing of hapboy's brother, was found not guilty on the basis of goes free.

hapboy who had been attending the trial goes into a blind rage. "How could they let this killer go. He deserves to die" hapboy thinks. "He killed my brother." He follows the defendant out into the parking lot, grabs a gun from his pocket, and shoots the defendant dead. There murder was videotaped, hundreds of witnesses, fingerprints, gunshot residue, etc. Iron clad case of murder.

hapboy goes to trial. His attorney uses the temporary insanity defense, but the prosecution presents the comments by hapboy that have appeared in this thread, and the jury concludes that hapboy was sane, and pre-disposed to kill based on his belief that all murderers deserve to be put to death.

Should we put hapboy to death based on the above scenario?

Would that be justice?

 

[chasinfla]

Quote from hapaboy:



Let's get the facts straight here. Beazley was a few months shy of 18 when he committed murder. He was the senior-class president, honor student, blah, blah, blah who put a gun to the head of a 63-year-old man and pulled the trigger.

Along with his two hoodlum friends, Beazley confronted John Luttig and his wife, Bobbie, in their own driveway in 1994. Beazley wanted their Mercedes-Benz, so he shot them.
(He had previously told his classmates that he soon expected to be driving a Mercedes.)

He then walked into a puddle of Mr. Luttig's blood and shot him a second time directly in the head. He rifled through the dead man's pants pocket for the car keys and took the Mercedes. Mrs. Luttig survived by playing dead.

Beazley crashed the Mercedes a few blocks away.

So because he wanted to joy-ride in a Mercedes, Beazley coldheartedly killed a man who owned one and tried to kill his wife for the privilege.

Are we supposed to feel sympathy for Beazley because he was class president? Because he was an honors student? Because he was a star athlete? Because he was 17 at the time?

Please.......

Hardly analogous to getting a traffic ticket for riding a tricycle.

He got what he deserved. End of story.

what, do you know the story? if what you say is the case, you could go to the site I linked to and perhaps post your comments there. I really think you should. I never heard of this case prior to receiving the email from my friend.

if it's not an issue of sentencing minors as adults, it's an issue of the death penalty in general, and we're back to square one on that.

here in florida there is a 14 yo girl who has been sentenced to life without parole, for being the companion of someone who committed murder. that's a pretty stiff sentence, I think. a 14 y/o may do adult things, but she is in no way is emotionally and psychologically developed into an adult.

Once again, I stick my neck out by posting about a case in which my knowledge is minimal. Assuming the facts can be accurately distilled to the above, I'd say that's barbaric policy.

In the Florida prison system, abuse is not uncommon. It's no place for a child who happened one night to be with a companion that is sick.

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Imagine the following scenario.....

hapboy goes to trial. His attorney uses the temporary insanity defense, but the prosecution presents the comments by hapboy that have appeared in this thread, and the jury concludes that hapboy was sane, and pre-disposed to kill based on his belief that all murderers deserve to be put to death.

Should we put hapboy to death based on the above scenario?

Would that be justice?

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

For some strange reason, Flame Wars often drag on because everyone wants to have the last word. This is probably a mistake, as once boredom and apathy has set in, quality can only go down.

Better to spot the trend and leave quietly - not to be confused with sulking - you can always rejoin if the thread comes to life.

I just try to stay on point of the topic at hand, apply reason to the process....

If only 200 murderers released from prison either via parole or serving their term end up murdering others, I would say that the prisons are doing their job of helping to rehabilitate.

In addition, we have seen many cases where DNA and other evidence has been planted by police after the fact.

Until such time that a defense attorney can confirm with 100% degree of certainty that a police officer didn't plant the evidence, we will never know with certainty that didn't happen.

Ah, the great Optional777, pathetic liar and slanderer, the guy who thinks "only" 200 murders committed by released murderers is indicative of successful prison rehabilitation, the guy who ignored the rules of the thread as indicated in the first post and subsequent posts, has decided to return to the scene of the crime with a vivid what-if scenario.

I can hardly wait for your two disciples, WDGann and dGAB, to chime in with their sure-to-be-objective opinions on this matter.

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from chasinfla:

what, do you know the story? if what you say is the case, you could go to the site I linked to and perhaps post your comments there. I really think you should. I never heard of this case prior to receiving the email from my friend.

This case made national headlines, chasinfla.

here in florida there is a 14 yo girl who has been sentenced to life without parole, for being the companion of someone who committed murder. that's a pretty stiff sentence, I think. a 14 y/o may do adult things, but she is in no way is emotionally and psychologically developed into an adult.

Once again, I stick my neck out by posting about a case in which my knowledge is minimal. Assuming the facts can be accurately distilled to the above, I'd say that's barbaric policy.

In the Florida prison system, abuse is not uncommon. It's no place for a child who happened one night to be with a companion that is sick.

Again, before I could tell you my humble opinion, I'd have to know the circumstances.

So what is YOUR opinion of Beazley? What sentence do you feel he should have received?

Cheers.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Quote from hapaboy:




Ah, the great Optional777, pathetic liar and slanderer, the guy who thinks "only" 200 murders committed by released murderers is indicative of successful prison rehabilitation, the guy who ignored the rules of the thread as indicated in the first post and subsequent posts, has decided to return to the scene of the crime with a vivid what-if scenario.

I can hardly wait for your two disciples, WDGann and dGAB, to chime in with their sure-to-be-objective opinions on this matter.

Were you unable to answer the hypothetical situation with a response and opinion?

Or just unwilling?

I am making a point, an important point, that all can see and participate in.

Why are you hesitating to answer? I am not even asking for a link to data for proof.

 

[hapaboy]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Why are you hesitating to answer? I am not even asking for a link to data for proof.

Because it's coming from you.

Your actions on this thread, simply put, have made me sick.

Blatant lying and slander are not things I easily forgive. Perhaps your life's journey has been filled with such contemptible acts and you have been easily forgiven and thus expect the same from me.

Optional, you have been measured, tested, and found (extremely)wanting. But if you insist on an answer, here it is:

(yawn)

 

[picknclick]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Would that be justice?

Yes

Predisposition plus the dumbass could have filed a civil suit, made some money, and tortured the perpetrator for the rest of his days. That's enough for me, as a would-be juror, to recommend the death penalty. Then again, we shouldn't execute the mentally challenged. I retract my yes answer.

 

[candletrader]

Once we have taken control of Iraq, we should use capital punishment on all those who do not approve of their new leader, General Tommy Franks