Is Bible inerrant

[DerekD]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

I think you are denial of your own efforts to maintain your belief system, which of course is a practice.

Members of a vast minority have difficulty maintaining their beliefs in a society in which there is mass propagation of a belief system that runs counter to their own. It takes effort to sustain any belief which in such a minority position. It is only natural to have doubt when those around you are of a different belief system. It is natural for the non believer to doubt their non belief, if they are honest with themselves, so to sustain that non belief they have to practice it regularly and continually.

Coupled with the underlying trauma unresolved from failure with theism as a child, this time of year is especially difficult for those who don't share the religious "Christmas" spirit. The feelings of alienation from the larger part of society is a genuine malady, which is likely we see the anti religion types become so vocal this time of year.

Were you of a peaceful mind and heart on these subjects that had found your way through to opposition to your atheism, there would be no need to constantly rage against the theistic machine.

The resident ET atheists overflow with resentment for those with religious belief, so much so that is obvious to any reader of these threads that atheists have their own cross to bear, and let the theists know it with great regularity, great frequency and with great emotional force.

There is no practice of acceptance of those with religious belief by the true non believers here, and they are the knee jerk polar opposite of those who try to push their religion onto others.

It takes zero effort to sustan non-belief. We aren't burdened with any proof or false justification of beliefs. We don't suffer the disappointment of unaswered prayers. We don't have false hopes as we take things as they are and as they come. Being an Atheist is a fairly easy lifestyle.

That is until we buck up against theists who are constantly trying to usurp power and inject their view of unsuportable things on us non-believers and everyone else who doesn't believe exactly as they do.

While the theist enjoys the fruits of science, they reject the core of science and scientific thought. You still have people believing that the earth is approximately 6000 years + 6 days old because they counted the lineage of Adam until Jesus and from Jesus to today. What's more, they think there's come conspriracy in science to state that the Earth is several billion years old just to justify evolution. They don't even bother themselves to learn how that "fantastic" number was arrived at. And the ones that have a scant knowledge say that scientists used carbon dating and carbon dating is know to be error prone. Yep these people exists today and are completely convinced of themselves.

How can you expect rational people to respect what otherwise should be rational people when those people embrace irrational ideas? Worse yet, try to spread their irrational idealisms on everyone and then proceed to punish those that disagree?

Yeah, we atheists are a minority. A minority that has to on occasion defend itself against a hoard of irrational zealots and people who believe so strongly in things that are really no better than a fairy tale, that they'd happily have us sent back to the stone age.

Rarely, if ever do we find the atheist saying "I tried religion, didn't work for me. Maybe it works for others. Just because it wasn't true for me, doesn't mean it isn't true for other."

I see atheists say that all the time. Well, not the true part because that doesn't make any sense. The religious haven't even proved to themselves that what they believe is true.

But we're happy to live and let live.

But problem is, the religious aren't content to live and let live. They at all turns attempt to impose their beliefs and belief system on everyone. All the while making their so called omnipotent god out to be a very weak and timid little child.

For instance - gay rights. What do you care if gays want to marry? How does that affect you personally or your position in the afterlife? And by you I mean the religious in general as I don't know what your specific view is one it?

Abortion? Don't like it, don't do it. Why is that such a hassle for the religious?

And so on.

Sure, you'll say we atheists tried to remove prayer in schools and god off money. Yes we did. Because we're looking out for the Jewish kid in a mostly Christian neigborhood. Or the Islamic kid in that same neighborhood. Or the Buddist kid. Even the atheist kid. Why should they have to be subjected to a religious view which is not their own? We supposedly live in a pluralist society. Why not act like it? Christians don't "own" America. They're just the majority. But the law of the land is to seperate religion and state. Doesn't your religion teach that one should uphold and respect the law?

How would Christians like it if mostly Islamic symbols and prayers were in public schools? They'd be up in arms over it.

How about doing unto others as you would have done unto you?

 

[armoured saint]

the bible is fiction man, not even good fiction because it's way over the top of any believability

 

[DerekD]

Quote from yip1997:

Good. Now we have the same belief in science. Let me rephrase my question.
Assume "Bible is inerrant". Can we scientifically prove that it is wrong? (That is what I call hard evidence.)

Yes. And it has been done.

Lack of historical and archeological proof.
Internal contradictions.

But apologist come out and smooth things over for the faithful.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Sure, he should accepted those beliefs as long as they were not harming him.

His motive was purely commercial, I don't see the same in the resident ET atheists.

In any case, comparing Chris Angel and his illusions to belief in God is not an intelligent comparison, as described above. Angel wasn't ever claiming his magic was the work of God.

Are there people in religions who act "in the name of God" for selfish and commercial reasons?

Sure thing, but it is one thing to expose their commercialism or self interest, and another to denounce those who simply believe in God's love and God's grace.

There are selfish commercial people in every field. There are selfish and commercial people in the scientific field, but that doesn't render the field of science as a whole false because of the actions of some scientists.

You are being intentionally obtuse. I made my point. You may now go and obfuscate into oblivion, because it's what you do and who you are.

 

[Hansel H]

Quote from DerekD:

Ok, granted. So without evidence for God can we say that the possibility of its existence is extremely remote? Like with fairies?

The difference between fairies and God is that we can discount the likelihood of fairies on the basis of our having available more common sense explanations for their purported works.. but there are no explanations for the existence of the Universe that make any more sense than the God explanation.

I can only think of three possible scenarios: The Universe has always been; the Universe appeared from nothing or from a series of somethings the first of which appeared from nothing; the Universe was supernaturally generated. All of these scenarios are inexplicable by way of science.

This is why I say that because all the explanations for the existence of the Universe defy both common sense and science it's pointless to critique any of them on the grounds that it's unscientific or unreasonable.

However, you can find reasons aplenty in nature and in yourself to adopt either style of explanation.

 

[Hansel H]

Quote from DerekD:

Yes. And it has been done.

Lack of historical and archeological proof.
Internal contradictions.

But apologist come out and smooth things over for the faithful.

This doesn't qualify as scientific proof. I believe Yip is a scientist and probably wants more than common sense or bare logic.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Well, I disagree.

If I say "don't think about the elephant in the room" what is your first thought?

It does in reality take effort to sustain non belief in the concept of God once the concept of God has been understood, especially when it is not known if that concept is actually true or false.

Atheists are surrounded by theists who proudly discuss and promote their majority belief systems, which runs counter to their own belief system. It does take effort, a continual practice of sustaining atheism.

To deny the reality of your own practice may be your choice, but I don't see it as my job to convert you to the reality of how belief systems actually work, and that they take effort to maintain themselves once there is a decision to hold a belief that runs counter to the majority position.

"How would Christians like it if mostly Islamic symbols and prayers were in public schools? They'd be up in arms over it."

Real Christians would be too focused on their own belief systems to be concerned about the beliefs of others as long as they were free to practice their own beliefs.

There are real Christians who practice their own Christian beliefs while living in Muslim countries.

The "In Name Only Christians" that dominate the landscape here in America would of course feel threatened by such actions that promoted Islamic symbols and prayers.

"While the theist enjoys the fruits of science, they reject the core of science and scientific thought."

I am a theist, and I don't reject the core of science or scientific thought. It has its place in a limited understanding of the physical existence we all share and improving the material benefits in life. However many theists believe science is just the process of knowing about the creation of God which on its own will never bring any real contentment in life so they see no conflict in the actual science and what it does. Those who take the pure science and use it to promote their atheistic beliefs are on their own, and as long as they don't prohibit others from practicing their own theistic beliefs or try to keep theists from their beliefs there is really no problem that I can see.

So someone believes in blind random chance Godless evolution, that's okay with me as long as they don't try to force their belief system down my throat or deny children the right of choice in developing their own belief systems freely.

Quote from DerekD:

It takes zero effort to sustan non-belief. We aren't burdened with any proof or false justification of beliefs. We don't suffer the disappointment of unaswered prayers. We don't have false hopes as we take things as they are and as they come. Being an Atheist is a fairly easy lifestyle.

That is until we buck up against theists who are constantly trying to usurp power and inject their view of unsuportable things on us non-believers and everyone else who doesn't believe exactly as they do.

While the theist enjoys the fruits of science, they reject the core of science and scientific thought. You still have people believing that the earth is approximately 6000 years + 6 days old because they counted the lineage of Adam until Jesus and from Jesus to today. What's more, they think there's come conspriracy in science to state that the Earth is several billion years old just to justify evolution. They don't even bother themselves to learn how that "fantastic" number was arrived at. And the ones that have a scant knowledge say that scientists used carbon dating and carbon dating is know to be error prone. Yep these people exists today and are completely convinced of themselves.

How can you expect rational people to respect what otherwise should be rational people when those people embrace irrational ideas? Worse yet, try to spread their irrational idealisms on everyone and then proceed to punish those that disagree?

Yeah, we atheists are a minority. A minority that has to on occasion defend itself against a hoard of irrational zealots and people who believe so strongly in things that are really no better than a fairy tale, that they'd happily have us sent back to the stone age.



I see atheists say that all the time. Well, not the true part because that doesn't make any sense. The religious haven't even proved to themselves that what they believe is true.

But we're happy to live and let live.

But problem is, the religious aren't content to live and let live. They at all turns attempt to impose their beliefs and belief system on everyone. All the while making their so called omnipotent god out to be a very weak and timid little child.

For instance - gay rights. What do you care if gays want to marry? How does that affect you personally or your position in the afterlife? And by you I mean the religious in general as I don't know what your specific view is one it?

Abortion? Don't like it, don't do it. Why is that such a hassle for the religious?

And so on.

Sure, you'll say we atheists tried to remove prayer in schools and god off money. Yes we did. Because we're looking out for the Jewish kid in a mostly Christian neigborhood. Or the Islamic kid in that same neighborhood. Or the Buddist kid. Even the atheist kid. Why should they have to be subjected to a religious view which is not their own? We supposedly live in a pluralist society. Why not act like it? Christians don't "own" America. They're just the majority. But the law of the land is to seperate religion and state. Doesn't your religion teach that one should uphold and respect the law?

How would Christians like it if mostly Islamic symbols and prayers were in public schools? They'd be up in arms over it.

How about doing unto others as you would have done unto you?

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

I deny your false accusation.

Quote from Thunderdog:

You are being intentionally obtuse. I made my point. You may now go and obfuscate into oblivion, because it's what you do and who you are.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

I deny your false accusation.

And I have better things to do.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Perhaps a better thing for you to do would be to make another grandiose public pronouncement of a New Year's resolution, then break it for all to see...

Quote from Thunderdog:

And I have better things to do.