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Is Bible inerrant
- Thread starter yip1997
- Start date
Quote from traderNik:
Hansel
I got your reply and np, I will check back later if you have a chance to respond. However, I just had to comment on this bit above.
I vehemently disagree that we can't choose to believe something. I see people who choose to believe things all the time. In fact I see that tendency as being one of the primary ways in which people rationalize their failures.
The only question I used to have is 'Do they really, truly believe in the excuses they make? Isn't there a small part of them, deep inside, that knows that all the excuses are bullshit? Was there a part of Hitler that knew all his racist rhetoric was bullshit?'
I used to think there was. I now believe that that's not necessarily true.
Yet here can you say that you are choosing to believe people do choose to believe or have you simply come to that conclusion? Isn't belief merely a conclusion in spite of evidence?
And Like Vhehn says in a post above, can you choose to believe something you know isn't true? Like 10+10=52?
If you can't seem to choose to believe something you know isn't true, how can someone consciously choose to believe something which has no conclusive, testable proof of being true.
I think people fall into a belief or might be predisposed to believe certain things over others as that appears to be the case.
What's more, it appears that human history suggests that humans are prone or "hardwired" to believe in invisible or imagined things like, "gods."
Quote from Alex_in_Oz:
I was once thrown out of Sunday School for asking this question:
Remember when Cain killed Abel and was subsequently banished to the Land of Nod. Where did all the people who resided in this 'Land of Nod' come from if Cain and Abels parents, Adam and Eve, were the first people on earth?
Well?
I highly doubt that you were thrown out for this.
Do you somehow suppose that it was possible for the descendants of Adam & Eve to have children? Genesis does not enumerate all the descendants.
Quote from Turok:
"The critical point of the statement being -- Who would want him as a god?"
The critical point is, what makes you think you know anything? When you go to bed, are you concerned with what the dust mites in your rug think? And you are millions of orders of magnitude less so than God. You don't even know which way to look. What makes you think you can imagine the correct interpretation of God? It is hard enough for you to remember your zipper when you stumble out of the restroom.
"Perhaps we are just 'ants' to be squashed by the 'god' you describe if we don't do his bidding "
And perhaps you haven't a clue about what He wants. You formalize an unfounded opinion, and then think God should follow it.
"if so, I'll be going down like a fire ant -- relentlessly driving toward a uncomprehensibly large enemy with no hope of success, but knowing I'm doing the right thing."
Enemy is right. you have made yourself His enemy, as you make demands upon Him and judge Him. All you will accomplish is that you will vaporize in a mild puff of unnoticed steam.
"A moral God worthy of respect would know that it is to be earned -- even by such an entity. "
Do you earn the respect of the bugs and insects in the house around you? Do you even know where they all are? If not, why do you think you can project proper etiquette on someone who is 10 to the trillions beyond you?
"The critical point of the statement being -- Who would want him as a god?"
The critical point is, what makes you think you know anything? When you go to bed, are you concerned with what the dust mites in your rug think? And you are millions of orders of magnitude less so than God. You don't even know which way to look. What makes you think you can imagine the correct interpretation of God? It is hard enough for you to remember your zipper when you stumble out of the restroom.
"Perhaps we are just 'ants' to be squashed by the 'god' you describe if we don't do his bidding "
And perhaps you haven't a clue about what He wants. You formalize an unfounded opinion, and then think God should follow it.
"if so, I'll be going down like a fire ant -- relentlessly driving toward a uncomprehensibly large enemy with no hope of success, but knowing I'm doing the right thing."
Enemy is right. you have made yourself His enemy, as you make demands upon Him and judge Him. All you will accomplish is that you will vaporize in a mild puff of unnoticed steam.
"A moral God worthy of respect would know that it is to be earned -- even by such an entity. "
Do you earn the respect of the bugs and insects in the house around you? Do you even know where they all are? If not, why do you think you can project proper etiquette on someone who is 10 to the trillions beyond you?
Quote from rcanfiel:
that is "everyone"
I can't wait to meet you in person someday . . . and I will. You are one unhappy individual.
"Judge not yet ye be judged"
I prefer to think of "spell check" as something I use when required.
When would you like us all to start making sure your spelling is always correct?
You are such a child.
What is your real name again?
The question is whether or not there is hard evidence of biblical errancy -- not whether there is hard evidence of string theory universes. There is hard geological, fossil and radiological evidence that contradicts scripture. You may not like the evidence, but it exists. You can dismiss it by saying that God has intentionally mislead the nonbelievers. This is also fine, but it doesn't contradict the hard evidence.kjkent1: The hard evidence is that biblical scripture is directly contradicted by geological, fossil and radiological evidence, with respect to age of the planet, occurrences of biblical events, existence and development of life.
rcanfiel: Hard evidence? That is a childish interpretation. Back up to what I said before about an 11-diminesional universe, a multiverses, etc. Scientists are still in diapers, and think they can comment on a Deity. I hardly doubt that most scientists even knows what is in the scripture. It is written to prevent understanding by those who do not believe. Science thumps its chest, as if they have even the slightest clue of how things work in the realm of eternity.
My moral compass has nothing to do with the fact that the God by his own words, chooses to torture every woman who has ever and who will ever live, for the actions of God's own first creation. God thus admits to punish the innocent. On the other hand the U.S. Constitution forbids "corruptions of blood," thus it appears that the Founders were more merciful than their God. That's a fact, which I suggest is evidence that the bible is errant, because no God worthy of worship would do such abominable acts.kjkent1: Also, the Bible permits slavery (both old and new testament). It also indicates that the God of Abraham is a sadistic misogynist (God punishes all women for Eve's sin, by forcing them to bear children in excrutiating pain).
rcanfiel: And you are a perfect moral being who has never wronged anyone nor committed an unkind act against others? Why do you think your view of morality can be projected onto an immortal, omnisicient, omnipresent being? Does God have to live down to your expectations? According to scripture, almost all people are active enemies of God. Do you support abortion? The scripture considers it as an act of murder ("I knew you from the womb"). Multiply that by the countless actos of brutality people do against each other. It is amazing God has mercy on anyone...
The issue is biblical errancy -- not your opinion of my smugness. One can reasonably question the accuracy of a religious text supposedly the product of an imortal deity, which is by any reasonable measure, less moral than the law of mortals created by the deity.kjkent1: Assuming that human laws would throw God in jail and throw away the key, were God mortal, why would anyone accept the Bible as a superior moral guide?
rcanfiel: Assuming that at the end of life, it is you that will be standing before God, maybe you will be a little less smug when He says, "sorry, I don't believe in you. The stove is over there. Get lost. "
God is purportedly a perfect being. Humans get their generally accepted definition of perfection purportedly from God's own words. Therefore, for example, it is a perfect expression of God's divine will that all women, who have ever been born and/or who will ever be born, should suffer excruciating pain in childbirth, despute their apparent innocence for Eve's acts.Quote from yip1997:
We need a metric to have a concept of "superior". What is the standard? Should we use God as an absolute standard?
However, how can one believe something that he considers bad as God? Isn't one of the characteristics of God good? What is the definition of God? That was one of the good reasons imo why one doesn't believe in the God described in the Bible.
Similarly, both the old and new testament permit slavery.
Christians and Jews may be able to live with this sort of perfection. I can't, because I find it abominable. So, either I should become a sadistic, misogynist slaver like the Lord (and spend the rest of my life in prison or a mental institution), or I should reject the Bible as in error.
I choose the latter.
Rcan:
>The critical point is, what makes you think
>you know anything?
And on top of all the evidence that the prevalent version of "god" isn't an entity worthy of respect, you're the perfect example of most of his followers -- that is a self-righteous, judgemental sad-sack.
A God worthy of respect would never want you as a follower ... but then, I suppose that means that you two are perfect for each other. Enjoy
JB
>The critical point is, what makes you think
>you know anything?
And on top of all the evidence that the prevalent version of "god" isn't an entity worthy of respect, you're the perfect example of most of his followers -- that is a self-righteous, judgemental sad-sack.
A God worthy of respect would never want you as a follower ... but then, I suppose that means that you two are perfect for each other. Enjoy
JB
"And on top of all the evidence that the prevalent version of "god" isn't an entity worthy of respect, you're the perfect example of most of his followers -- that is a self-righteous, judgemental sad-sack."
Nice job of asserting your own personal opinion of what should be respected as some accepted pejorative by everyone.
What a riot that from your own self righteousness and judgmental personal point of view you are calling the kettle black.
Not only do you have a personal opinion of what God is, a personal opinion what God should be, you also preach what others should be believing...
As a staunch believer in non-God, you position yourself as being able to tell others that a God worthy of your respect would never have someone else as a follower unless they shared your belief systems...
What a crack up...
Funny watching those with a God complex evaluate God according to their own condition of humanity...just like a small child judging their parents.
Nice job of asserting your own personal opinion of what should be respected as some accepted pejorative by everyone.
What a riot that from your own self righteousness and judgmental personal point of view you are calling the kettle black.
Not only do you have a personal opinion of what God is, a personal opinion what God should be, you also preach what others should be believing...
As a staunch believer in non-God, you position yourself as being able to tell others that a God worthy of your respect would never have someone else as a follower unless they shared your belief systems...
What a crack up...
Funny watching those with a God complex evaluate God according to their own condition of humanity...just like a small child judging their parents.
Quote from Turok:
Rcan:
>The critical point is, what makes you think
>you know anything?
And on top of all the evidence that the prevalent version of "god" isn't an entity worthy of respect, you're the perfect example of most of his followers -- that is a self-righteous, judgemental sad-sack.
A God worthy of respect would never want you as a follower ... but then, I suppose that means that you two are perfect for each other. Enjoy
JB