Is Atheism a crutch for people who don’t understand the complexity of God?

Quote from I am...:

Force is an attribute of "the universe", which is fantasy. It is not an attribute of Reality, so force would be a "sin", yes.
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But the fact is, you are entitled to your fantasies of falsehood, as well as the truth of your freedom.
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The Truth does not command.
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The Truth teaches only equals, teaching the equality of Reality. To command is to imply inequality.
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But when it comes to the truth, he must volunteer his cooperation unequivocably.
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Jesus
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You say that "man must volunteer his cooperation unequivocally". Do you mean MUST as in "has no choice", or as in "in voluntary order to understand"?

I fully agree that it is a very bad thing to force one's will upon others, and "truth" should not be a forced belief.
 
Quote from Gringinho:

See, you were talking about the origin of the universe, and trying to inject that into my arguments - but I was not falling for that blatant scum trick. You were not "simply stating my argument", but falsely/cowardly trying to inject something about the origin of the universe and pass it off as "my argument"... You have absolutely no idea how I think about the origin of the universe... THAT is what was worth ridiculing.

Well, human and natural evolution shows us that we are related to other primates, as per carbon dated finds and DNA.

Creationism say that everything was created over a short period of days.

We know that in fact, we have been evolving for much longer and that humans as well as other species share a common(!) evolutionary path. That disproves creationism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_evolutionary_synthesis
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Creationism as professed by the Christian Bible has certainly been shot down by carbon dating and DNA, but you do know that bigjon is going to counter with "who says the supreme being created the world in 7 days" (or whatever it is), or he may even once again counter with "maybe the supreme being is tweaking carbon dating results just to fuck with us for fun".

Dude, don't even try to argue with guys logically. I just gave up. You aren't going to get anywhere.
 
Jayford,
I know he might try and counter with that...
But then he will be renouncing the religious texts - and what is left then?

I studied a lot of logic and model theory at university, and also enjoy strategic games like Shogi - I even was one of the founding members of the first Shogi association in my home country.
:)
 
Quote from Gringinho:

See, you were talking about the origin of the universe, and trying to inject that into my arguments - but I was not falling for that blatant scum trick. You were not "simply stating my argument", but falsely/cowardly trying to inject something about the origin of the universe... You have absolutely no idea how I think about the origin of the universe...

Quote from you:
"I am talking about the creationism being taught through the religious texts" From that I am supposed to assume you aren't talking at all about creation? Creationism in the bible does cover the universe and man (God created the heaven and the earth) and since that religion is what you were referring to it makes sense to assume you mean both man and the universe. No one is picking on you.

Well, human and natural evolution shows us that we are related to other primates, as per carbon dated finds and DNA.
Creationism say that everything was created over a short period of days.
We know that in fact, we have been evolving for much longer and that humans as well as other species share a common(!) evolutionary path. That disproves creationism.


Exactly what I thought you would say, how can you not see that this means nothing? Your first point is basically this "since man and ape share 95% genetic material, god didnt create man". Do you see how dumb that is? Maybe god just likes apes so he created to creatures that are alike. This PROVES NOTHING.

Secondly, you mention that we have been evolving for much longer and God created man in 7 days. Why do you think its impossible that God created the earth with age already in it. Maybe he wanted mans physical body to have links to the animal kingdom. Maybe he wanted evolutionists to have something to do with their lives. Maybe he did it to trick us. It could be ANYTHING, this PROVES nothing. I could name a million different scenarios in which a christian god created man with obvious ties to other animals.

Do you see now that science is lost in these questions? Do you see that we have made no progress?
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There is no rational evidence for the existence of 'god' as envisioned by any organized religion. The believer is not able to dispute this without invoking superstition or the supernatural. Atheists reject superstition and the supernatural as irrational. Einstein's seemingly irrational views on religion may demonstrate that even a very brilliant mind such as his has its limits. We will never be certain, without knowing his personal definition of 'god'.

To the atheist, a belief in god is just as absurd as the rejection of the existence of god is to the religious.
 
Quote from Jayford:

Dude, don't even try to argue with guys logically. I just gave up. You aren't going to get anywhere.
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That is MY POINT! You wont get anywhere! Thats the frikin point I have been trying to make in this thread.
 
Quote from jonbig04:

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Exactly what I thought you would say, how can you not see that this means nothing? Your first point is basically this "since man and ape share 95% genetic material, god didnt create man". Do you see how dumb that is? Maybe god just likes apes so he created to creatures that are alike. This PROVES NOTHING.

Secondly, you mention that we have been evolving for much longer and God created man in 7 days. Why do you think its impossible that God created the earth with age already in it. Maybe he wanted mans physical body to have links to the animal kingdom. Maybe he wanted evolutionists to have something to do with their lives. Maybe he did it to trick us. It could be ANYTHING, this PROVES nothing. I could name a million different scenarios in which a christian god created man with obvious ties to other animals.

Do you see now that science is lost in these questions? Do you see that we have made no progress?
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Your "since man and ape share 95% genetic material, god didnt create man -- Do you see how dumb that is?" is not complete. Because evolution already proves that there is evolutionary progress - as a true fact - and this is completely in line with the shared DNA of humans to other species... that proves that we are in fact evolved with common ancestors of other primates.

However your "Maybe god just likes apes so he created to creatures that are alike. This PROVES NOTHING." -- now THAT is truly uncomprehendingly stupid.

Creationism as taught in the religious texts has been disproved by sciences. That you say "maybe he already created history into everything at an instant" - now that is just contradictory to what the religious texts all say.

So which is it - are the religious texts right or wrong?
 
Quote from piezoe:

There is no rational evidence for the existence of 'god' as envisioned by any organized religion. Atheism is simply a recognition of this indisputable fact, and a rational rejection of superstition and the supernatural. Einstein's seemingly irrational views on religion may demonstrate that even a very brilliant mind such as his has its limits. We will never be certain, without knowing his personal definition of 'god'.
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From the little I know about him, I don't think Einstein was irrational in any way. Rather, he was either misquoted a lot or some of what he had said and written was misinterpreted, either innocently or otherwise. Einstein was not a theist. He was a pantheist who, in his wonderment, essentially referred to nature as god. It was a poetic reference rather than a literal one. He had disputed his alleged belief in a personal god.
 
Quote from jonbig04:

That is MY POINT! You wont get anywhere! Thats the frikin point I have been trying to make in this thread.
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I will show you over and over again that reasoning and thinking will get me anywhere within reality and saneness.
 
Albert Einstein was agnostic and yes, maybe a pantheist. He was also a Zionist and had a political agenda concerning Jews and Israel. That cannot be left out of the picture when considering Einstein and religion.


A lot of intelligent people have absolutely no skills in other areas. That is the difference of "only intelligence" versus the skill of reasoning and thinking. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_thinking
 
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