Is a mentor necessary to have success as a trader

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I have had lot of personal experience in my former career (senior management) in mentoring. I found good mentors early in my career and later mentored and continue to mentor some managers.

Mentoring can help a lot. But the question is whether it is paid mentoring or free. I have seen many people experiment with paid mentoring or corporations have structured or forced mentoring but it seldom works. Free mentoring is the best. The reason for this is the process involved and motivation involved in mentoring.

Many people who are successful in their profession choose to mentor others. In that kind of a mentoring the mentor is not expecting anything more than a personal satisfaction of having imparted his or her help and knowledge to someone. It is more a self actualizing kind of motivation. Most important thing is that the mentor should not be looking for followers, monetary gains or seducing the person. People who get mentored often end up becoming mentors to others.

The relationship is non threatening. The mentor may or may not initiate the process. A person seeking advise normally initiates the process. The responsibility is always on the mentee to get maximum out of the mentor. Mentors do not teach, they facilitate learning, help you raise your own expectations and motivation level and warn you of possible pitfalls and hidden dangers.

I have found highly motivated individuals who want to succeed in a particular field always find a mentor. The best book which describes the ideal mentoring is Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
 
Funky,

With all due respect...please remove the animation from your signiture - it's just too painful to watch. I suggest replacing it with a well-endowed female who repeatedly removes her bra.

-Entropy
 
Quote from dbphoenix:



Based on the way you've set this up, you can't make this statement unless you can demonstrate that everyone who has responded to the poll is making a living out of trading. And I somehow doubt that this is the case.

Now if you want to create another poll which reads "anyone trading" rather than "anyone living the dream of trading for a living", your results might differ considerably. But then that would have nothing to do with BF's original statement.
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You do make a good point. Would there be a way to confirm that a poll saying "unless you are a successful trader" don't respond would actually filter out those who are not a successful career traders? Do you think if we asked FPC and other known losers and mental cases, that they wouldn't respond to the poll with their primary handle and in addition call upon the multitude of other personalities they have registered here at Elite?

I think we can get an idea though, from the comments of those who are responding to this poll, and the comments of those who are posting.

However since Brandon made the claims, the burden of proof is on his shoulders, right?

I challenge him to verify his claims.

In addition to the previous comments I posted earlier, Brandon also made the following claim in his post:

"For many of today's most successful traders that mentor has been Brandon Fredrickson."

The question then becomes, if Brandon makes this kind of claim, can he verify it? Can he prove that "many" of today's "most successful traders" have been mentored by Brandon? If he can't verify it, then the claim is relegated to speculation, and in this context is used to hype his paid service that he is selling.
 
Quote from easyguru:

...Mentoring can help a lot. But the question is whether it is paid mentoring or free.

I have seen many people experiment with paid mentoring or corporations have structured or forced mentoring but it seldom works.

Free mentoring is the best.

The reason for this is the process involved and motivation involved in mentoring.

Many people who are successful in their profession choose to mentor others. In that kind of a mentoring the mentor is not expecting anything more than a personal satisfaction of having imparted his or her help and knowledge to someone. It is more a self actualizing kind of motivation. Most important thing is that the mentor should not be looking for followers, monetary gains or seducing the person. People who get mentored often end up becoming mentors to others.

...A person seeking advise normally initiates the process.

The responsibility is always on the mentee to get maximum out of the mentor. Mentors do not teach, they facilitate learning...
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There is no way to tell if mentoring is valuable or not via it being free or fee-based.

If you truly can find a mentor to freely help you learn how to be a successful trader while absorbing all the costs associated with such instead of you...

your one lucky trader.

No matter how you look at...it's not going to be free for you.

If that successful trader mentor doesn't charge you out of the kindness of his/her heart...

your still going to have to pay for traveling cost to go see your mentor, your going to have to buy things your mentor recommends to you that you need to adequately treat your trading like a business...

everything costs...

no such thing as free mentoring because someone will have to pay...the student or the mentor.

My mentor many many years ago...freely did it for personal satisfaction.

I remember asking him in the second month of mentoring how much was I costing him?

He looked at me with wonder...started writing stuff down...

he figure that with some missed trade opportunities while guiding me through my own trades one-on-one in person, resources and supplies and such...

it has cost him about $3,200.

(I eventually financially compensated him...although he didn't need the money...once I got on my own two feet and was doing ok as a trader)

My point is this...once again...if you can find a successful trader mentor to mentor you for free...

your one lucky trader.

P.S. The other day I got a phone call from a relative wanting to know the best way to upgrade her Windows 98 to Windows XP...

in our brief 3min phone conversation...I missed a nice Bearish Divergence trade setup that would have netted me +3 ES points per contract...

Simply, the free help I gave my cousin...actually cost me a bundle.

NihabaAshi
 
It might not be "necessary" but it certainly helps. If you are going to run a marathon, its not "necessary" to have two legs, but it helps a lot if you do.
 
The question then becomes, if Brandon makes this kind of claim, can he verify it? Can he prove that "many" of today's "most successful traders" have been mentored by Brandon? If he can't verify it, then the claim is relegated to speculation, and in this context is used to hype his paid service that he is selling. -- Optional


Well, I don't think Brandon has a monopoly on selling services to traders. Each person has to decide whether the service is worth the price. If he competes for customers within regulatory limits established by the NFA, then no matter how I may disagree or agree with his practices, he is free to compete. However if, in competing, he violates the boundaries established by the governing authority then he is subject to the penalties established for the violation.

Credibility establishes value. If he is credible, or believable, and his methods are provable upon inspection then a reasonable person wouldn't hesitate to pay the price for the service. This because, the reasonable person could expect to profit many times over the cost paid.

As to the anticipated appearance of Brandon in the chatroom to prove his trading prowess. He said he would do it, so the expectation is he will be able to do it. For a trader, the market is the job and source of livelihood. Whether a trader has a good day or a bad day is really immaterial to the trader's career. What is important is the performance of the job. I, for one, don't expect Brandon to be perfect. No one in the chatroom is perfect. I do think it is not unreasonable to expect him to make his calls as he is trading. I don't view traders who delay much on a call as being very credible. A quarter or half point delay on a fill if the market isn't moving is suspicious looking. If the market is moving and you are filled a small delay is understandable. Everyone can see the market moving. However, the fact that the market is moving is not a protection against reporting a fill more than a quarter point late. I have been filled on several occasions as the market is moving and reported late, primarily because I was sitting on the bid instead of buying the ask.

I think the above defines how I will look at Brandon's trading performance next week, if I am able to be there when he's trading.

Bruce
 
Quote from bdixon619:

The question then becomes, if Brandon makes this kind of claim, can he verify it? Can he prove that "many" of today's "most successful traders" have been mentored by Brandon? If he can't verify it, then the claim is relegated to speculation, and in this context is used to hype his paid service that he is selling. -- Optional


Well, I don't think Brandon has a monopoly on selling services to traders. Each person has to decide whether the service is worth the price. If he competes for customers within regulatory limits established by the NFA, then no matter how I may disagree or agree with his practices, he is free to compete. However if, in competing, he violates the boundaries established by the governing authority then he is subject to the penalties established for the violation.

Credibility establishes value. If he is credible, or believable, and his methods are provable upon inspection then a reasonable person wouldn't hesitate to pay the price for the service. This because, the reasonable person could expect to profit many times over the cost paid.

As to the anticipated appearance of Brandon in the chatroom to prove his trading prowess. He said he would do it, so the expectation is he will be able to do it. For a trader, the market is the job and source of livelihood. Whether a trader has a good day or a bad day is really immaterial to the trader's career. What is important is the performance of the job. I, for one, don't expect Brandon to be perfect. No one in the chatroom is perfect. I do think it is not unreasonable to expect him to make his calls as he is trading. I don't view traders who delay much on a call as being very credible. A quarter or half point delay on a fill if the market isn't moving is suspicious looking. If the market is moving and you are filled a small delay is understandable. Everyone can see the market moving. However, the fact that the market is moving is not a protection against reporting a fill more than a quarter point late. I have been filled on several occasions as the market is moving and reported late, primarily because I was sitting on the bid instead of buying the ask.

I think the above defines how I will look at Brandon's trading performance next week, if I am able to be there when he's trading.

Bruce
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Let's say Brandon kicks ass next week in his personal trading. Or lets imagine he makes nothing but losing trades.

The results in his chat room sessions are irrelevant to the questions:

1. Is mentoring necessary to become a successful career trader.
2. Does nearly every successful career trader attribute their success to the mentoring process to a greater or fuller extent than other factors....as stated Brandon.
3. Did Brandon in fact mentor many of today's most successful traders.

What he does in a week of trading is irrelevant. Who would base an investment decision on one week's trading of a trader?

I think he is foolish for coming into the chatroom to try and prove something.....but apparently he feels he has something to prove.
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:



There is no way to tell if mentoring is valuable or not via it being free or fee-based.

If you truly can find a mentor to freely help you learn how to be a successful trader while absorbing all the costs associated with such instead of you...

your one lucky trader.

No matter how you look at...it's not going to be free for you.

If that successful trader mentor doesn't charge you out of the kindness of his/her heart...

your still going to have to pay for traveling cost to go see your mentor, your going to have to buy things your mentor recommends to you that you need to adequately treat your trading like a business...

everything costs...

no such thing as free mentoring because someone will have to pay...the student or the mentor.

My mentor many many years ago...freely did it for personal satisfaction.

I remember asking him in the second month of mentoring how much was I costing him?

He looked at me with wonder...started writing stuff down...

he figure that with some missed trade opportunities while guiding me through my own trades one-on-one in person, resources and supplies and such...

it has cost him about $3,200.

(I eventually financially compensated him...although he didn't need the money...once I got on my own two feet and was doing ok as a trader)

My point is this...once again...if you can find a successful trader mentor to mentor you for free...

your one lucky trader.

P.S. NihabaAshi
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What you are desribing is different from someone saying give me 10000 USD and I will mentor you or my fees for mentoring are 10000 USD.
 
you can always barter another skill in exchange for a mentor's experience, kind of like the way danielsan painted miagi's fence... you know? for example, offer to perform tedious research or exchange programming skills for knowledge etc etc.

I believe the challenge to the beginner in a mentorship relationship is to give back accordingly for a teachers priceless experience. What does the student have to give? I work on that..
 
Having a mentor may or may not have a great deal to do with ones success as a trader.

However, an unhealthy obsession with other traders or vendors is most definitely detrimental to ones success as a trader.



"Your competition is not the guy next to you. Your competition is you"-- Dr. Zhivodka


Regards,
Dr. Zhivodka
 
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