'Iron-ass' Cheney and 'arrogant' Rumsfeld damaged America, says George Bush Sr

I don't know what to make of that. Many of us feel that bush jr... screwed up. Is this senior's way of saying we shouldn't blame his son because he had the wrong people? I think the real screw up was the execution of clean up period.

I think that while some of the choices made by Bush jr were tough calls, that could have gone either way... The way he executed the wars and occupations were the real problem.

if you are going to be a hard ass... then do the job correctly... it seems to me they executed a protracted post war effort to benefit Haliburton and the oil cronies. For instance it just did not make any sense to have guys riding around in poorly armored jeeps getting shot up. WTF was that for?

I thought they were going to secure the oil and make sure we got paid back for the war effort?

The list of screw ups go on an on.
I really don't think the rhetoric matters much... it was the execution.
Cheney's right who cares if he was a hard ass. It may be a compliment.
My point would be that he and Rumsfeld and their cabal further, significantly, messed up the world with their profit taking, poor strategy and execution... and the buck stops with Bush.

And the real kicker is that Bush got us Obama and all that incompetence including his pro Muslim brotherhood strategy.
 
Loved Cheney and Rumsfeld. They were the kind of adults I want running the country I live in.

GHWB was incompetent at just about everything but particularly the economy. He passed that DNA down to GWB who just about finished us off. I doubt Dick Cheney would have tanked the economy like that if he was running things.

The trait I most appreciated about Rumsfeld is that you could literally see him thinking before he spoke.

Thinking before speaking has become a lost art.
 
The infuriating thing is the neo-cons and assorted warmongers like McCain learned nothing from two of our worst foreign policy disasters, Iraq and Afghanistan. Their explanation is to blame Obama for pulling out of Iraq. I guess they wanted us to stay there for 60 or 70 years, like we have in South Korea. At a $100 bill a year or so and to protect people who despise us and throw their US taxpayer-provided weapons down at the sight of the enemy.

Ironically Obama has basically doubled down on the Bush strategy and managed to destabilize three other ME countires, Egypt, Libya and Syria. And continued to piss away billions on the Afghan disaster.
 
So... we're looking at a GWB admin, followed by Odumbo admin, followed possibly by a Hillary admin.

How in the world does America prosper (let alone survive) in such a shit storm of political incompetence and evil??
 
AAAintheBeltway said:
The infuriating thing is the neo-cons and assorted warmongers like McCain learned nothing from two of our worst foreign policy disasters, Iraq and Afghanistan. Their explanation is to blame Obama for pulling out of Iraq. I guess they wanted us to stay there for 60 or 70 years, like we have in South Korea. At a $100 bill a year or so and to protect people who despise us and throw their US taxpayer-provided weapons down at the sight of the enemy.

Ironically Obama has basically doubled down on the Bush strategy and managed to destabilize three other ME countires, Egypt, Libya and Syria. And continued to piss away billions on the Afghan disaster.
More...

I disagree that entering Afghanistan was wrong. Obviously Bin Laden was there surrounded by his supporting Taliban. We had to take action.

I can fault the administrations on their failed exit strategy for Afghanistan, and in retrospect deeply question invading Iraq in Gulf War 2.

If the U.S. policy is to keep the entire Middle East destabilized to prevent the rise of any regional power (which it may well be) then you can make the case that our policy has been highly successful.
 
jem said:
I don't know what to make of that. Many of us feel that bush jr... screwed up. Is this senior's way of saying we shouldn't blame his son because he had the wrong people? I think the real screw up was the execution of clean up period.

I think that while some of the choices made by Bush jr were tough calls, that could have gone either way... The way he executed the wars and occupations were the real problem.

if you are going to be a hard ass... then do the job correctly... it seems to me they executed a protracted post war effort to benefit Haliburton and the oil cronies. For instance it just did not make any sense to have guys riding around in poorly armored jeeps getting shot up. WTF was that for?

I thought they were going to secure the oil and make sure we got paid back for the war effort?

The list of screw ups go on an on.
I really don't think the rhetoric matters much... it was the execution.
Cheney's right who cares if he was a hard ass. It may be a compliment.
My point would be that he and Rumsfeld and their cabal further, significantly, messed up the world with their profit taking, poor strategy and execution... and the buck stops with Bush.

And the real kicker is that Bush got us Obama and all that incompetence including his pro Muslim brotherhood strategy.
More...

Tough calls ? No. Pretty much the whole world said don't invade Iraq, there are no WMDs, that the premises being put out there were total bs. But Americans bought it hook, line, and sinker. I remember conversing with some Americans before the invasion, they believed so strongly in the war and that everything their government and the media was feeding them was true.

Fuck the idea that it was a "tough call". It was an easy call. You don't start meaningless wars costing many lives using totally made up premises. And now, it is clearly proven that they made everything up. And don't think regular Americans didn't pay as price for buying these projects. A good chunk of rising taxes comes from funding the war, and that's not to take away from the immorality of having many young people die fighting this useless war that the dumbass George W. wanted to fight.

Fuck your idea that the execution was off. The whole project was immoral based on lies. George W. should have been charged with war crimes.
 
Nine_Ender said:
there are no WMDs
More...


Even after the NYTimes admits in 10/14 that there were wmd's in Iraq after all, leftists can't bring themselves to admit that they were wrong. A good lie is just hard to stop telling isn't it?

And the anti-war half-black self described Kenyan that so impresses people like you 'jump started Arab Spring'.
NY Times: Obama Jump-Started Arab Spring - Clarion Project
Now that the fruits of that effort are destabilizing not only the middle east but all of Europe, whatayagottosayforyourself?
 
gwb-trading said:
I disagree that entering Afghanistan was wrong. Obviously Bin Laden was there surrounded by his supporting Taliban. We had to take action.

I can fault the administrations on their failed exit strategy for Afghanistan, and in retrospect deeply question invading Iraq in Gulf War 2.

If the U.S. policy is to keep the entire Middle East destabilized to prevent the rise of any regional power (which it may well be) then you can make the case that our policy has been highly successful.
More...


My objection on afghanistan was staying there after we had deposed the taliban and let bin laden slip through our fingers. That was a matter of months. Instead, Bush embarked on this crazed nation building effort. Now 12 years later and trillions of dollars wasted, and the month we leave the taliban take over again. Fine, let them. If they get out of line, and they will, just bomb them to smithereens.
 
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