Invitation to see Tara & Jack Hershey trade against each other
- Thread starter teasinggtara
- Start date
Quote from T2GR8T:
Well how typical Jack.. you think a trading challenge is held in hindsight
Pretty much the only way you can dupe anyone into thinking SCT works
No I felt it was in real time at a site run by a third party who kept it transparent.
There were no third party takers.
Jack, who do you think you're fooling with your asinine calls in hindsight? I've caught you trying to amaze the uninformed with hindsight indicator drills before. Are you trolling for noobs to play Pied Piper with again? Anyway... how about explaining in clear, concise language why none of these claims of yours even remotely match reality:
Jack Hershey: "rough trader takes 1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars"
Reality: More like from $85K to $95K (if that even happened)
Jack Hershey: "don't even think about what you just read about someone else's [Neoxx's] effort who is only doubling his money every three days by compounding capital."
Reality: Failure
Jack Hershey: Promised his former IBD group he'd turn $10K into $1million in 100 days and post updates on ET
Reality: Never happened
Jack Hershey: "I do reach my goal of 3x H-L in ES as a practice."
Reality: -24% in a trading contest
Jack Hershey: "rough trader takes 1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars"
Reality: More like from $85K to $95K (if that even happened)
Jack Hershey: "don't even think about what you just read about someone else's [Neoxx's] effort who is only doubling his money every three days by compounding capital."
Reality: Failure
Jack Hershey: Promised his former IBD group he'd turn $10K into $1million in 100 days and post updates on ET
Reality: Never happened
Jack Hershey: "I do reach my goal of 3x H-L in ES as a practice."
Reality: -24% in a trading contest
Quote from T2GR8T:
What is really funny is SPM accomplished more in one day than SCT did in 6 years by taking newbs and having them post profitable blotters on the very first day of trading SPM
The way it turned out for the SCT people is that they met during the NYC Expo for a day for the price of the restaurant and evening drinks (60 bucks).
They got to see live trading by Spyder and, most of all, meet each other. Their mailing list will be used to send them the five books as a courtesy.
Five European nations were represented and several states of the US.
This will be repeated in Vegas. I know you won't be there and neither will be any of your great producers.
I agree SPM is funny. The indicator's defaults are pre PC; it doesn't work in chop and to make any money, if at all, you stay sidelined a lot of the time. Oh, the thread is closed and has few hits. Could you post an icon or whatever to get to your closed thread.
Lies lies lies.. Spyder can't even afford decent dress shoes for a function and no SCT trader has ever posted a blotter let alone traded in realtime for others to see.. you are a sad old coward that can't face a lifetime of failure
The only time SCT ever went on record you ran out of a trading contest with your tail between your legs and 24% down
SPM blew SCT out of the water in a single day
Item 1 roughtrader
The Trader666 pleaser post.
Roughtrader.
Rough trader started a journal on 25MAR09. On 26MAR09 he posted 1500 bucks PNL value.
Later in the Journal (02APR09), he posted his schedule of contracts traded based on capital in the account; it was as follows:
âI forgot to add some background information concerning size.
You can see from the trade histories I have posted that this account is trading 2 ES contracts currently.
I funded the account with an initial capital base of $75,000, and I started with one contract. My fixed ratio delta is $5,000, so when the equity hit $80,000 I started trading 2 contracts. The current balance is around $89,500, so if and when I reach $90,000, I will trade 3 ES contracts.
The scaling schedule is:
Total Profit # Contracts
$0 1
$5,000 2
$15,000 3
$30,000 4
$50,000 5
$80,000 6
etc. etc.
rtâ
He went on to clarify a little here and there. The target aspect limits his ATS profits and it can be switched away from all in all the time as you see below.
âIt's completely unattended, and I don't do anything except reoptimize every weekend for each instrument I trade.
The system's objective generally is stop-and-reverse. However, I employ profit targets for each position. There are a total of 4, and the position size is broken up as equally as possible among the targets. The system also has the option of "Always in Market", which means that the system must always be in the market with at least 1 contract. If the option is turned off, then the system can take the account flat if all targets are hit. I decided to turn it off, but the performance statistics are fairly insensitive to whether it's on or off. Again, a matter of preference.
For the ES I choose a comfortable 6 points (24 ticks) per target, such as I scale out at 6, 12, 18, and 24 points.
Interestingly, I have found that long-term profitability doesn't improve when using targets, but the volatility of the equity curve somewhat improves. For me, this makes it easier to not get discouraged during times of less-than-desirable performance.
In any case, the essence of the system is that it has no bias for the session. If price moves up by a certain amount, the setup is long. If it moves down by a certain amount, the setup is short. The vast majority of trades end by closing an existing position and opening a new one at the same price in the opposite direction.
rtâ
So as things turn out his system is making money and started with 75,000 dollars on 25MAR09 and reached 93K on 23APR09.
Now my comments.
Roughtrader has traded one month and is not applying much capital (1 to 3 contracts) and he scales out as indicated.
He does not compound profits in any sense and maintains low risk. Each fie thousand of profits warrants adding one contract.
His equity curve has gone from 0 to 20,000 dollars in a month. His applied capital has gone from a margin for one contract to margin for 3 contracts.
For me if I roughed it out my comment would be that an average of two contracts over a month made 20,000 dollars. Margin for active skilled traders has a value.
If a person uses 2,000 dollars per contract margin, then roughtrader only quintupled his applied capital. If 500 bucks margin per contract is used, then roughtrader is up about 20 times his applied capital.
Being up 500 or 2,000 percent in a month can be used to see how a longer period could go. Roughtrader tweaks the ATS weekly or so and he scales out automatically by lookup in his ATS.
For me 500 to 2000 percent a monthly is a good basic level performance of an ATS that he says relates to SCT.
For me the âcash cowâ ATS used on ES for a month when it was at the same ATS level as roughrider (like the output of 22APR09 chart; is a âcomparableâ as far as I am concerned. Anyone can run the numbers on both ATSâs.
I also recommend compounding profits. I feel that the profits earn the right for a person to use the profits as margin.
I think Trader666 spent his time well in figuring out (as I couldnât with the info I had) that only a small amount of capital was being put at risk. I assumed incorrectly roughtrader was applying profits as well as margin would permit (500 bucks a contract) and he was running the market offr up from an initial 1500 bucks (3 contracts).
Going from 1500 bucks to 94,000 can happen fast if roughtrader chooses to be all in all the time.
Bottom line: looks like roughtrader makes 20,000 a month on two contracts average while scaling out of entries on his ATS.
Item 2 Neoxx and bootcamp
The Bootcamp came about as a thread was subdivided by a moderator. It was like some threads years earlier.
For the PhDâs (an informal group it is considered very possible to take recruits through a 30 day boot camp with the support system we have for that.
We would prefer college students or high school grads who are ignorant. There are lots of reasons. Without boot camp our rule of thumb is learn PVT first and then do SCT later. Weekly, thee is a requirement to dump SCT profits into PVT and after a while when PVT streams are at 100,000 share position trading capacity, you must go to SSR (Stock Sector Rotation) which is not capital limited.
Bootcamp
Bootcamp was tough at all stages and it got strung out for a lot of reasons.
On day one, we did not use an ATS as a backup for being sure about 50 points a day would be pulled. (See the indicator based ATS whose chart for 22APR was posted)
This means margin is 150 points etcâ¦.. That is every three days a bootcamper makes 150 points and can double his contracts traded.
At the time of the beginning and just before activity began, it was suggested that NEOXX do PVT first just based on his statements of his background.
To do a bootcamp it is usual to have equipment as a support for the recruit.
We had to back track a little and see if using color was acceptable. Color wasnât.acceptable for more than a normal duration of bootcamp.
Color turned out to be acceptable on two frontiers at some point: displays and copying charts for doing annotating on a desk.
Concurrently during this interval there was a non messy issue. Neoxx was not willing to post messiness , an inherited and strong cultural trait.
I wanted to try to make it possible to see the market offer. This turned out to be successful since it could be done on weekends and repeatedly with the same data set. But it did involve using an equity chart approach which was hard to do because the computer refused to work periodically (when the scale had to be adjusted. The scale was logarithmic to boot and the purpose wasnât clear for line shaping..
We did get a family of six curves compounding over a period of 10 days. And it became acceptable to do drills to build the mind and long term memory.
First recourse to this highly valuable memory was difficult to achieve for two main reasons: past first recourse and total incoherence caused by instinctively referring to the daily PnL. What it looked like (more easily described) was a person using 15 minute delayed data feed.
Months passed and we had gone from beginner to advanced beginner to beginner internals to intermediate to advanced intermediate. These are all steps of mental differentiation.
As it turned out it did become possible to do many things. 11,000 dollars was spent on a computer so the markets could be seen. We did get to hookup to a coherence measuring software via attachments to the human body. (emwavepc Fourier analysis software and equipment.) Then we could do time studies on human states so a human state reference while trading could be seen. The pulse rate was 92BPM when we began to grapple with coherence months and months into bootcamp.
The success of bootcamp and learning trading happened at a certain point. Besides becoming self sufficient and a participant in the TR thread, neoxx was able to get into foundation stuff and he is a regular at the meetings. He flew from London to the NYC session and it scheduled into Vegas.
Now time is available to read and to travel and to do local problem solving with professional skills and capital.
What was most important was the process neoxx created a record of. It is available to anyone who is intellectually capable of delving into what happened. All learners need to know how to learn to learn. The record of a person learning to learn and how learning works is there OMLY because neoxx took the time and trouble to make it available.
It wound up in chit chat.
Neoxx is a person who has it made so to speak. He is part of the core group that formed.
Item 3: turn $10K into $1million in 100 days and post updates daily
This is the main phishing activity of trader666 who does not trade commodities.
It definitely surpasses his fuck ups of back testing anything anywhere in his life.
I will suggest he use item one for this since it is happening right now and it is posted daily.
Starting capital we can say is 10K by pretending the 75k roughtrader started with would let him trade 1 contract IF IT WERE ONLY 10K INSTEAD.
In 30 days rough trade has made 20,000.
In reality the discussion and what was done was start with 100K and trade stocks. The objective was 1 million in 100 days as a simple measure of changing capital an order of magnitude. I spoke of 10K going to 100K to also show another order of magnitude.
So lets see if roughtrader can take his initial capital of a fake 10K for 1 contract and get to 100,000 dollars profit in three months (end of MAR to end of APR to end of MAY to end of June.)
We already know the true balance of the account has to be 175,000 dollars.
Rationally we all know how it turns out at the end of month 3. Month 1 was 20,000 profits on an average of 2 contracts. Month 2 will be 40,000 profits on an average of 4 contracts. And lastly, month 3 will be 80,000 dollars in profits on an average of 8 contracts.
Smoothly speaking, roughtrader adds a contract every 5,000 of profits. So he is already ahead of schedule on adding contracts for month 2 and month 3.
What could also happen is he could stop scaling out and just do straight reversals.
Anyway, your wish has been granted and on 25JU09 the account will show 210,000 instead of the required 175,000.
I know you want the requirement to be 75,000 going to 750,000 to prove something. People who trade SCT do not keep money idle, though.
Making an order of magnitude is done in a much shorter time than 100 days for either SCT or PVT in stocks.