Investor's Toolbox (www.investools.com)

Quote from Scott63:

In response to earlier posts after my intial post on this thread. I’m not instructor. Wish I was, I could get all this stuff free and know how to use it. I’m just trying to shake some trees to see what I can find out from others on Investools. As I said, I know a few people that have taken the courses through the master’s level. I would tend to agree with the comments by others. At least I would agree that for many people this is a waste of money for many reasons. And I agree, of course, you can learn all the stuff from books and get the tools various places on the Internet. Perhaps the only value is if the tools really give you an edge and save you a lot of time. I think that’s the big question. I know some posters think the tools are useless and that’s good to know as it makes me more suspicious. But, if anyone thinks they do work and can explain why, I’d like to know. What I especially want to know about is their advanced tools, like the stock chart pattern recognition software they got when they bought Prophet.net (no longer available on the Prohet.net website). I know for a fact that it’s only available through an advanced course and only after you’ve gone through their so-called master or PHD courses. Lot’s of money!

I also agree that trading and infomercial don't go together, but that's how investors is getting their mass sales even though most who buy in don't or can't follow through. For those who do follow through, the question for me remains. Is it worth it?
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Whoa whoa whoa, that's news to me! I actually haven't seen any chart pattern recognition software, and I bought the advanced technical book. No where on the prophet interactive charts does it have that, nor does it mention it anywhere in any of the books. Unless you only get that if you buy the classes/personal training. I just bought the home course material, but I doubt they have that. The tools are great, and it does save you time, but the same could be said for other sites out there, Investools isn't the only one. It's just the price you pay, it's way overpriced. Investools doesn't give more of an edge than other services out there. Don't get me wrong, it's a good site, it's just the money that is the problem.

I would, and I am going to use Tradestation for my charting needs, and I will be using them as a broker as well. I will be trading enough to waive the monthly fee. The charting is also better with tradestation, while it does have pattern recognition, but it also has alerts that you can set for either price, volume, or trendlines. The Prophet charts on Investools site doesn't have any alerts. I'll will also be using IBD.

If you're just looking for tools, and time savers, IBD offers similar services minus the 3000 dollar minimum payment. If you're looking for charting, Tradestation is nice as well. These are just two of the many services you can use out there, I'm sure other people can recommend to you better things, I'm just a newbie anyway. :P

If you're looking for education, then search around and find all of the recommended stock books. I named a few that I think are pretty good.

If you don't mind spending a lot of money, then go for Investools. I wish I could take back my purchase, but I can't. Here's what's funny, you know the first basic course, the 5 step? That costs $3000. Well, a book that I read that covers all of that (for the most part, if not more) is that O'neil book, How to Make Money in Stocks. The funny part is that only costs $13.

So again, in conclusion, Investools is a great site! The $3000 minimum payment isn't so great.

I wish you success!
 
I agree FuriousInvestor, until I'm convinced otherwise. Many other tools out there at a range of prices far less than Investools and some free. I'll look at Tradestation.

You won't see the chart pattern recognition software on the Prophet.net site anymore. From what I'm told, it wasn't there very long before Investools bought them and took it off (probably why they bought them as well as another revenue stream). I'm told this chart pattern recognition software software or service is only available if you take a specific course in Park City from Investools and you must have already taken their other advanced courses (master or PHD I think).

What books of all those you've read FuriousInvestor would you recommend and for what purpose (general trading, options strategies, technical analysis, chart patterns, etc.)?
 
Quote from BrooksRimes:

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I've seen the software it appears to be a nice product, well designed and integrated. Its $40-50/month to use it.

Unfortunately, you must take a $3000 course to be able to subscribe to the service ($2000 if taken at home).
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Unfortunately there is no shortcut for learning how to trade ..... you need to spend time in the markets to develop an approach and to understand what not to do.

Trying to learn how to trade from a textbook or course is like trying to learn how to ski from a book. You can learn a lot of useful techniques etc but when you actually ski it all comes into focus ......
 
Quote from Scott63:

I agree FuriousInvestor, until I'm convinced otherwise. Many other tools out there at a range of prices far less than Investools and some free. I'll look at Tradestation.

You won't see the chart pattern recognition software on the Prophet.net site anymore. From what I'm told, it wasn't there very long before Investools bought them and took it off (probably why they bought them as well as another revenue stream). I'm told this chart pattern recognition software software or service is only available if you take a specific course in Park City from Investools and you must have already taken their other advanced courses (master or PHD I think).

What books of all those you've read FuriousInvestor would you recommend and for what purpose (general trading, options strategies, technical analysis, chart patterns, etc.)?
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The ones I like best are the ones I mentioned.

William J. O'neil's How to Make Money in Stocks - This book has to do with the CANSLIM method, it's a mix between technical and fundamental analysis)

Jim Cramer's Real Money - Has to do with mainly fundamental analysis and general longer term investing. (Cramer isn't really in to charts) Some of the rules he talks about are pretty good, but I'm more of a short term trader. It was an interesting read to see his thought process though.

Dr. Alexander Elder's Trading For A Living - While it does go over technicals like chart patterns and indicators, I read this mainly for money management, and the psychology of trading. Love this book.

Encyclopedia of Chart Patterns by Thomas N. Bulkowski - Strictly chart patterns.

Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefevre - Good book, It's about Jesse Livermore

Honorable Mentions:

Steve Nison's Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques - Obviously from the title, it's about candlestick charting.

Technical Analysis of Stock Trends by Edwards and Magee - Technical Analysis book.

There are more, but I liked those the best. It tends to get a bit repetitive, I know mostly everything when it comes to techniques and knowledge (For the type of trading that I like). Now it's just applying what you've learned and getting real experience. I'm doing that with paper trading, but going to move to real money soon. I need to really feel how it is to lose thousands of dollars, even though I try to treat paper trading as real trading in terms of psychology. Everyday is a learning experience for me when I trade, that I don't get from the books.

Books that I'm considering to read because of curiosity are the following:

Van Tharp's Electronic Day Trading - I read some reviews and came to the conclusion that perhaps I should read it since it's widely recommended.

William O'Neil's How to Make Money Selling Stocks Short - Most people say it isn't a good book, but I want to read it anyway.

The only options book I have is that Investools course books (Basic, and Advanced Options). I don't like options, so I didn't bother reading anything else on that. For leverage I'd rather go on margin, that's just me though. If I ever use options, it may be a straddle/strangle on a stock that I'm almost sure will make a big move (like earnings release), but not sure which way. Even then, I doubt it...
 
I got a mailing on Investtools and they have just made a pass through Arizona (Tucson for one afternoon then Scottsdale and Mesa area)

The pitch was a 2 and 1/2 hour one and projected stuff was the modus.

Basically, it is an Intermediate Term investing cycle and it uses a combo of fundamentals and some TA.

The resort setting in Tucson drew about 250 people and ws staffed by five persons. I would say thatabout 25 people signed up.

They served large cookies and chilled cans of coke. there was pour it yourself water and a set of hand outs that were very brief.

The introducer was brief and and did a hand off to a Phoenix based person who was not an instructor, but has been a local resourse person since he began trading in '98.

The instructors will show for a two day shot in about three weeks. Or we Arizonans can go to nearby places like California or st Lois for the two day's training.

If you want to exercise the guarantee of money back, it is done precisely at the end of the irst day's training nd before the second day begins.


The pay by CC which was offered by Wisetrade(I always proffer my CC for 3,000 deals) was not offered by these guys at the scene. They just wanted the # on file and they would collect the 3,000 approaximately just before the first day of the two days.

I took copious notes for an assortment of reasons.

The Q and A part is done by asking folks to write out their Q's and submit them after the meeting. At this time sign ups are underway and one person is available to answer all Q's for as long as Q's are there to deal with. About 7 people went to the ront of the room where an unknown person was collecting them.

The five part process for Intermediate Term trading approach is something that will probably prevent people from making the contemporatry level of mistakes with which they currently deal.

The strategic combination of elements will not be beneficial to most persons who have not had great past success. Most focussed past successful investors would not see any value in using this scheme of investing.

The presenter suggested that he has done quite well and he stated, near the end of the presentation, that he started as a staff person with an initial amount of personal capital of 2,300 dollars.

I use alternatives for their first three steps and they are all free (but one), very very convenient, proven and recognized sources.

As for the TA portion, they use three indicators: an MA, the historgram of "MAC- DEE" (as they speak it) and "stochastics" (a single line graph in their presentation). Their signals, humourously, are taken inconsistently (a different basis is chosen instead of a consistent basis) and the defaults are in appropriate for use in Intermediate term trading. All indicators must signal simultanoeuosly, roughly speaking.

There was a major caveat presented. It goes like this: Bad stocks (those not meeting the initial three measures) can give "buy" signals (meaning good TA signals which have no "predictive basis" because the stock is "bad"). By the by, the 43 sort criteria sets which have names, also include one name which is "custom". This sort of means you can make up a sort and process it.


For anyone sitting in the room who was observing, it was clear that the audience was unable to "soak up" was was profferred. This could have made it possible for guilible people to be influenced by the sales approach that was being used. I tried to check out some of the locals to see what affected them. The most easily handled issue, I felt, was the "stochastic". It was set up with defaults that led to its swinging and "residing" to and from 75 and 25 without exception. It was either at 25 or 75 and the transient from one to the other was never with any hesitation. "overdriven excessively" came to my mind.

For those who remember the color scheme of Wiztrade, the same applies and the "reading from right to left" also prevailed re: sector and stock trend analysis.

Nothing presented was up to date, nor was the presentation done during market hours. It was 120% canned with no interruptions except for audience assessment Q's to help the sales people ID possible "marks" (which they were doing actively). It was stated that all training is done during market hours and a direct connection to the market is available and used.

EOD and weekly data is used exclusively. LOL.

On a scale of 1 to 8 for the potential doubling standards I use for equity curves, I would be unable to give it a rating for a beginner. For an intermediate trader, it would not be useful because it only works on a trend basis that involves trends longer than the short term which is used by traders. Again, I could not give it a rating for intermediately skilled traders. For expert traders, it is a very useful exercise in what not to be doing to design anything. It would be worth going to the end of the line in training (end of first day) and getting your money back. Sitting through the presentation and also observing the public is very valuable.
 
^^

I agree. I was gullible, and ignorant. A big newbie. I had no idea how stocks worked. NONE. Not even a clue. The best thing that Investools did for me was spark my interest in stocks. It's not good for intermediate or expert traders, this is correct. I quickly realized that as I started reading books, forums like ET, and my own experimentation and analyzing of stocks in real time, and historical. This is why I regret buying it, but its too late now.

I'm not a "Pro" by any means, but I know A LOT (It's not even funny how much more I know than I did just three months ago) more than I did then, and I know enough to realize that Investools is bad. The whole system they teach is just bad. The site is good though, just their method of trading is a disaster waiting to happen. That's what hooks you, their method of trading seems so easy, especially to people like me who don't know a thing.
 
Quote from Grob109:

I got a mailing on Investtools and they have just made a pass through Arizona (Tucson for one afternoon then Scottsdale and Mesa area)

The pitch was a 2 and 1/2 hour one and projected stuff was the modus.

Basically, it is an Intermediate Term investing cycle and it uses a combo of fundamentals and some TA.

The resort setting in Tucson drew about 250 people and ws staffed by five persons. I would say thatabout 25 people signed up.

They served large cookies and chilled cans of coke. there was pour it yourself water and a set of hand outs that were very brief.

The introducer was brief and and did a hand off to a Phoenix based person who was not an instructor, but has been a local resourse person since he began trading in '98.

The instructors will show for a two day shot in about three weeks. Or we Arizonans can go to nearby places like California or st Lois for the two day's training.

If you want to exercise the guarantee of money back, it is done precisely at the end of the irst day's training nd before the second day begins.


The pay by CC which was offered by Wisetrade(I always proffer my CC for 3,000 deals) was not offered by these guys at the scene. They just wanted the # on file and they would collect the 3,000 approaximately just before the first day of the two days.

I took copious notes for an assortment of reasons.

The Q and A part is done by asking folks to write out their Q's and submit them after the meeting. At this time sign ups are underway and one person is available to answer all Q's for as long as Q's are there to deal with. About 7 people went to the ront of the room where an unknown person was collecting them.

The five part process for Intermediate Term trading approach is something that will probably prevent people from making the contemporatry level of mistakes with which they currently deal.

The strategic combination of elements will not be beneficial to most persons who have not had great past success. Most focussed past successful investors would not see any value in using this scheme of investing.

The presenter suggested that he has done quite well and he stated, near the end of the presentation, that he started as a staff person with an initial amount of personal capital of 2,300 dollars.

I use alternatives for their first three steps and they are all free (but one), very very convenient, proven and recognized sources.

As for the TA portion, they use three indicators: an MA, the historgram of "MAC- DEE" (as they speak it) and "stochastics" (a single line graph in their presentation). Their signals, humourously, are taken inconsistently (a different basis is chosen instead of a consistent basis) and the defaults are in appropriate for use in Intermediate term trading. All indicators must signal simultanoeuosly, roughly speaking.

There was a major caveat presented. It goes like this: Bad stocks (those not meeting the initial three measures) can give "buy" signals (meaning good TA signals which have no "predictive basis" because the stock is "bad"). By the by, the 43 sort criteria sets which have names, also include one name which is "custom". This sort of means you can make up a sort and process it.


For anyone sitting in the room who was observing, it was clear that the audience was unable to "soak up" was was profferred. This could have made it possible for guilible people to be influenced by the sales approach that was being used. I tried to check out some of the locals to see what affected them. The most easily handled issue, I felt, was the "stochastic". It was set up with defaults that led to its swinging and "residing" to and from 75 and 25 without exception. It was either at 25 or 75 and the transient from one to the other was never with any hesitation. "overdriven excessively" came to my mind.

For those who remember the color scheme of Wiztrade, the same applies and the "reading from right to left" also prevailed re: sector and stock trend analysis.

Nothing presented was up to date, nor was the presentation done during market hours. It was 120% canned with no interruptions except for audience assessment Q's to help the sales people ID possible "marks" (which they were doing actively). It was stated that all training is done during market hours and a direct connection to the market is available and used.

EOD and weekly data is used exclusively. LOL.

On a scale of 1 to 8 for the potential doubling standards I use for equity curves, I would be unable to give it a rating for a beginner. For an intermediate trader, it would not be useful because it only works on a trend basis that involves trends longer than the short term which is used by traders. Again, I could not give it a rating for intermediately skilled traders. For expert traders, it is a very useful exercise in what not to be doing to design anything. It would be worth going to the end of the line in training (end of first day) and getting your money back. Sitting through the presentation and also observing the public is very valuable.
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Such a wonderful post. I love following the path of how your mind works which you reveal with clarity and detail.

I will be using what I glean from your post as a template for recording my observations at seminars and dog and pony shows I attend in the future.

Thanks for the informative report.
 
Quote from Grob109:

.....

The Q and A part is done by asking folks to write out their Q's and submit them after the meeting. ...
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do not submit the form, casually fold it and put in in your pocket, without that slip you don't exist in their seminar, lol.
 
Quote from FuriousInvestor:

The ones I like best are the ones I mentioned.

William J. O'neil's How to Make Money in Stocks - This book has to do with the CANSLIM method, it's a mix between technical and fundamental analysis)

Jim Cramer's Real Money - Has to do with mainly fundamental analysis and general longer term investing. (Cramer isn't really in to charts) Some of the rules he talks about are pretty good, but I'm more of a short term trader. It was an interesting read to see his thought process though.

Dr. Alexander Elder's Trading For A Living - While it does go over technicals like chart patterns and indicators, I read this mainly for money management, and the psychology of trading. Love this book.

Encyclopedia of Chart Patterns by Thomas N. Bulkowski - Strictly chart patterns.

Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefevre - Good book, It's about Jesse Livermore

Honorable Mentions:

Steve Nison's Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques - Obviously from the title, it's about candlestick charting.

Technical Analysis of Stock Trends by Edwards and Magee - Technical Analysis book.

There are more, but I liked those the best. It tends to get a bit repetitive, I know mostly everything when it comes to techniques and knowledge (For the type of trading that I like). Now it's just applying what you've learned and getting real experience. I'm doing that with paper trading, but going to move to real money soon. I need to really feel how it is to lose thousands of dollars, even though I try to treat paper trading as real trading in terms of psychology. Everyday is a learning experience for me when I trade, that I don't get from the books.

Books that I'm considering to read because of curiosity are the following:

Van Tharp's Electronic Day Trading - I read some reviews and came to the conclusion that perhaps I should read it since it's widely recommended.

William O'Neil's How to Make Money Selling Stocks Short - Most people say it isn't a good book, but I want to read it anyway.

The only options book I have is that Investools course books (Basic, and Advanced Options). I don't like options, so I didn't bother reading anything else on that. For leverage I'd rather go on margin, that's just me though. If I ever use options, it may be a straddle/strangle on a stock that I'm almost sure will make a big move (like earnings release), but not sure which way. Even then, I doubt it...
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Thanks FuriousInvestor. I'll take a look at some of these books which I've not seen before. The broker I've worked with for years is very sharp, but his days in the business are numbered, and I've got to become more self reliant, so the more info the better. Don't mind playing for some good resources and tools too. I think I'll sign up with Prophet.net (even though their now owned by Investools - I hope they don't spoil it) and maybe IBD's premium screening and research tools. Just wish I could find a chart pattern recognition tool.

On the point of trading real money. Paper trading is a good idea, along with running tests on prior trading data of a stock to test trading strategies. Good to do even while you're trading money if you have the time. When it comes to playing with real money, I can say after 16 years of trading, I've made and lost tens of thousands in a matter of days, and on occassion, in a matter of hours. It was hard to take at first and a hard way to learn what foolish risks not to take. But after I got past that, I got kind of numb to the wins and losses and it has become more about the score and executing a plan. Of course, I wouldn't like to be where I was the few times I got slammed hard and it feels comforting to know I'm making money (most of the time).
 
Quote from Scott63:

I know those who use Investools, master level, and what I've concluded so far is that those who really have a chance to make money are those who are dedicated and willing to pay the additional $7000 after the initial $3000 for the next course (master level) and I believe get access to more powerful tools. The Investools instructors will tell you, once you get into their advanced courses (they call them Master or PHD level courses) that most of the people that only paid the $3000 will never make any money. Why? Because most don't have the skills, nor the time and discipline to learn the skills on their own needed to make money, and don't have access to the better tools. Going a step further, paying an additional $7000 or more for each additional course, there are even more powerful skills and tools for trading, stock screening, charting, etc. All those people you see on their Infomercials are a small percentage of the people paying the initial $3000 (and monthly access fee), and many of them took the advanced course. So bottom line, as with anything, if you want to make money there's no easy way. You need to be deadly serious about learning how to trade, have some money (the more the better), pay for the advanced courses, and practice, practice, practice! All the advanced courses and tools will do for you is help you obtain and enhance your trading skills and make you much more efficient using those skills and their tools, and therefore more successful at trading, compared to learning on your own using free or low cost tools. But as I said you have to be deadly serious (and competent) or you’re just throwing your money away! Investools is good, but they’re in this to make money and they’re going to sugar coat everything they do for mass consumption. They’re not going to kick you in the ass and weed you out like the Marine Corp. They want your money first!
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Hey, that sounds great!
As most don't have PhD's, you can get by at a discount! Only $7000 bucks more to pull you up to PhD level. That's much cheaper than first getting your master's and still paying another 4 years or so university fees.

Thank you for posting. This will certainly help a lot of wise guys.
:D nononsense :D
 
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