Intuition Amplifiers 2

marketsurfer · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from cornix:

"Quote from MAESTRO:

I am sorry, but in my point of view H/L points by themselves cannot be very efficient reference points as they only partially represent the points in event-time space. However, H/L points combined with their timing characteristics and other attributes like volume, size, bid/ask flow etc. become valid reference points and could be used very efficiently. The trick is to deliver this information in a format that excludes logical thinking and could be perceived intuitively."

bid ask flow is part of the price driver system--- This happens prior to PRICE or VOLUME being printed on a chart--- not mention his ETC. I'm sorry, but I don't find Maestro's statement supportive of chart based TA trading. thanks, surf

marketsurfer · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from ammo:

surf, theres an entire universe out there,would love to add your price drivers to the work shop,but would be foolish to throw away all the other tools

No question about it. I think intuitive TA can work potentially-- what i do not believe in is objective, rule based TA, that can be programmed, providing any edge to the trader--- I have seen this fail so many times both in proper back testing and and in live markets. However, traders keep on believing it works. surf

cornix · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from marketsurfer:

bid ask flow is part of the price driver system--- This happens prior to PRICE or VOLUME being printed on a chart--- not mention his ETC. I'm sorry, but I don't find Maestro's statement supportive of chart based TA trading. thanks, surf

Surf, don't you think it's time to stray from youthful maximalism in your age already?

There is no need to oppose order flow and past price/volume. Everything contains analytical value and Dr. Maestro pointed it out perfectly.

You miss large part of the picture, but neglecting traded price/volume completely.

ammo · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from marketsurfer:

No question about it. I think intuitive TA can work potentially-- what i do not believe in is objective, rule based TA, that can be programmed, providing any edge to the trader--- I have seen this fail so many times both in proper back testing and and in live markets. However, traders keep on believing it works. surf

i agree about the programming aspect,but the guys bringing home 40k(hft's) a day are using just that,so the truth makes me wrong,I would love to find a program that could watch what i watch and make profitable conclusions with it

marketsurfer · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from cornix:

Surf, don't you think it's time to stray from youthful maximalism in your age already?

There is no need to oppose order flow and past price/volume. Everything contains analytical value and Dr. Maestro pointed it out perfectly.

You miss large part of the picture, but neglecting traded price/volume completely.

There is no edge in studying past price or past volume alone which is what chart based TA traders do. You are missing the key part, I pray for your account when the market forces turn.

ammo · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from marketsurfer:

There is no edge in studying past price or past volume alone which is what chart based TA traders do. You are missing the key part, I pray for your account when the market forces turn.

with out past price and future price you have just the moment,i dont know how you can make any decisions based on that and if you did and were right,do you get out for a tick ,a point ,5,how do you know

marketsurfer · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from ammo:

i agree about the programming aspect,but the guys bringing home 40k(hft's) a day are using just that,so the truth makes me wrong,I would love to find a program that could watch what i watch and make profitable conclusions with it

Ammo, HFT has nothing to do with chart based TA or any type of TA.

Truth is programs are kicking TA users butts right now.

surf

marketsurfer · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from ammo:

with out past price and future price you have just the moment,i dont know how you can make any decisions based on that and if you did and were right,do you get out for a tick ,a point ,5,how do you know

Its based on what happens prior to price moving. of the probability of price moving based on what has happened before it moves. is it always right, no way, does it have an edge, yes.

The problem is with charts you cant show any pattern and conclusively say this pattern has 54% probability because the patterns themselves are not even defined for proper testing and when they are, there is no edge,. surf

cornix · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from marketsurfer:

There is no edge in studying past price or past volume alone which is what chart based TA traders do. You are missing the key part, I pray for your account when the market forces turn.

Did I ever say "alone"? But what's the most interesting is:

Order book is also past. Because when you see limit orders, are you sure they are going to be filled or maybe flipped in the last millisecond?

So "pre-trade" is also effectively just small part of the picture and even more dangerous, because it deals with hardly human-readable information flow of the shortest-term impact.

Aren't you going to tell me you enter your YM swing trades based on the order book?

cornix · Mar 5, 2013

Quote from marketsurfer:

Its based on what happens prior to price moving. of the probability of price moving based on what has happened before it moves. is it always right, no way, does it have an edge, yes.

The problem is with charts you cant show any pattern and conclusively say this pattern has 54% probability because the patterns themselves are not even defined for proper testing and when they are, there is no edge,. surf

Here's an example: you drive a car and someone cuts you off. You quickly evade and slow the car down simultaneously.

Did you act based on the past (action, which already took place) or did you read another driver's mind prior to the action?

How do you think what is more realistic and thus more reliable: quickly react depending on what's happening or try to read others minds?