Introducing 4XProp
- Thread starter 4Xprop
- Start date
Well the trader could still trade his own account...He has more money to trade...thats all...
Its just that I do not understand the sliding scale of commish...I wish it would be posted here instead of me having to fill out the form on their website. Do I net 50%? or will a portion be 30%...then 40%....then 50%...which is not a net of 50%.
I wish PIP rebates was not involved in this program. Their incentive is to look for traders that trade more...Because face it, it is all about who they make the most money from.
If I make 30% a month and another trader does the same with double the trades...who do they give more money to trade with? I'll let you readers answer that and see how screwed up it is. It should be a yield to risk ratio that determines how the prop invests their money.
ES
P.S. I do not see better spreads with an FXCM active trader account than Oanda offers...so now that Oanda offers MT4 the 5K lower threashold is not an issue for me.
Its just that I do not understand the sliding scale of commish...I wish it would be posted here instead of me having to fill out the form on their website. Do I net 50%? or will a portion be 30%...then 40%....then 50%...which is not a net of 50%.
I wish PIP rebates was not involved in this program. Their incentive is to look for traders that trade more...Because face it, it is all about who they make the most money from.
If I make 30% a month and another trader does the same with double the trades...who do they give more money to trade with? I'll let you readers answer that and see how screwed up it is. It should be a yield to risk ratio that determines how the prop invests their money.
ES
P.S. I do not see better spreads with an FXCM active trader account than Oanda offers...so now that Oanda offers MT4 the 5K lower threashold is not an issue for me.
Here let me put it like this...
Lets say I have weeded out the deadwood and I am left with a room of traders and they all make 30% per month minimum, which in itself is phenomenal.
Anyways...
Lets say that one trader exposes the firm to overnight trades and holds trades over the weekend....he does not trade very often and reaches higher than 30% drawdown during his hold...but makes 50% per month.
Lets say another trader at the top of the heap trades 12 times a day and sometimes hits an intraday drawdown of 30%. So he makes 30% per month but risks as high as 30% to get it. But he never holds overnight or over the weekends.
Now there is another trader that averages 70 trades a month and makes 15% per month, but he never gets more than 7 or 8% intraday drawdown...He does not hold more than 12 hours at a time and not over the weekend. He has displayed reasonble consistency during all sorts of different market conditions during his evaluation.
now if I were prop firm or just an extremely rich investor that set up my own program...How would I invest in my portfolio of traders above?
You guys do the math and diversify across those three above...
Now how would FXProp determine their portfolio? If it is just rebates?...if so...that would be troubling and I would want to be in a firm that would not benefit from churning verses one that did. You see I get no benefit from churning as a trader other than getting more money to trade...but should I get more money to trade based on anything other than my risk that I give the prop firm? I always thought that every trade was a risk and merely trading more just gives more money away in spreads.
ES
Lets say I have weeded out the deadwood and I am left with a room of traders and they all make 30% per month minimum, which in itself is phenomenal.
Anyways...
Lets say that one trader exposes the firm to overnight trades and holds trades over the weekend....he does not trade very often and reaches higher than 30% drawdown during his hold...but makes 50% per month.
Lets say another trader at the top of the heap trades 12 times a day and sometimes hits an intraday drawdown of 30%. So he makes 30% per month but risks as high as 30% to get it. But he never holds overnight or over the weekends.
Now there is another trader that averages 70 trades a month and makes 15% per month, but he never gets more than 7 or 8% intraday drawdown...He does not hold more than 12 hours at a time and not over the weekend. He has displayed reasonble consistency during all sorts of different market conditions during his evaluation.
now if I were prop firm or just an extremely rich investor that set up my own program...How would I invest in my portfolio of traders above?
You guys do the math and diversify across those three above...
Now how would FXProp determine their portfolio? If it is just rebates?...if so...that would be troubling and I would want to be in a firm that would not benefit from churning verses one that did. You see I get no benefit from churning as a trader other than getting more money to trade...but should I get more money to trade based on anything other than my risk that I give the prop firm? I always thought that every trade was a risk and merely trading more just gives more money away in spreads.
ES
Even worse...
On a model that does not consider how much risk and leverage is used...will My Prop firm go down with the boat?
How about..."what pairs are my traders trading"...what is my exposure?
I betcha' that the majority of traders are in the EUR/USD.
If you guys are going to go PROP...be careful of the deal you get and who you are going with.
I know nothing about FX Prop shops and do not know what there is to choose from...So I am not endorsing or bashing...
ES
On a model that does not consider how much risk and leverage is used...will My Prop firm go down with the boat?
How about..."what pairs are my traders trading"...what is my exposure?
I betcha' that the majority of traders are in the EUR/USD.
If you guys are going to go PROP...be careful of the deal you get and who you are going with.
I know nothing about FX Prop shops and do not know what there is to choose from...So I am not endorsing or bashing...
ES
cvds16,
Yes, I am curious as to how a Prop Firm thinks...I think that is would be very revealing Don't you? It would help the readers of this thread to see how stable the Prop firm is....They just do not take all-comers that can show a profit.
I do not have the answers..But if I am going to share profit from my systems with someone, I wanna know how I would benefit? I can see that having more money to trade has benefits but also there can be execution problems. A prop firm should get me access to great execution also. I can still trade my own accounts as I do now...so the addition of a prop firm to share profits with has to make sense...I also want to have a stable and reputable prop firm behind me....not just an opportunist with a short-term plan.
By the way...there is a fourth trader to that formula above ☺
ES
P.S. It does not matter what I would choose...it matters if my posts got anyone thinking? ...Obviously cvds16 you are contributing, in which I thank you for.
Yes, I am curious as to how a Prop Firm thinks...I think that is would be very revealing Don't you? It would help the readers of this thread to see how stable the Prop firm is....They just do not take all-comers that can show a profit.
I do not have the answers..But if I am going to share profit from my systems with someone, I wanna know how I would benefit? I can see that having more money to trade has benefits but also there can be execution problems. A prop firm should get me access to great execution also. I can still trade my own accounts as I do now...so the addition of a prop firm to share profits with has to make sense...I also want to have a stable and reputable prop firm behind me....not just an opportunist with a short-term plan.
By the way...there is a fourth trader to that formula above ☺
ES
P.S. It does not matter what I would choose...it matters if my posts got anyone thinking? ...Obviously cvds16 you are contributing, in which I thank you for.
sheesh...what about 30% profit per month....that is even more phenomenal..no wonder prop firms want dollars from PIP rebates...it would take too long to make money from traders trading correctly!
and how can 60 or 90 days of evaluation be anything meaningful? It really must be just the PIP rebates they're after...
ES
and how can 60 or 90 days of evaluation be anything meaningful? It really must be just the PIP rebates they're after...
ES
Indeed young grasshopper, it is the pip rebate they are after. This is an Introducing Broker gimmick under the guise of prop trading.
If this is a "new way" of doing proprietary trading.. then how about a little bit more transparency?-- % Payout structure? Capital Allocation structure? Some general rules?(ie. sharpe, profit objective, etc, etc, etc.)
This company is also in the West Indies (as per Nevis trading) so handling disputes might be a problem.
P.S. Being an advertiser on ET for the last 5 years really does not mean anything. In this business, it's not what about you have DONE, it's about what you can CONTINUE to do.