Interest rates.

Quote from Cache Landing:

I don't think he really knows what he means by no interest. It sounded good in a video from a guy who is trying to prove that the Bilderberg Group is running the world. Since it sounded good, it must make sense.

All I know is that my house would require half the labor to pay off and that the cost of most goods would drop.
 
Quote from slider123456:

It would not be the same as borrowing there would have to be an institution that would asses the risk of giving someone a loan and would appraise property for capital loans. They would need to be heavily regulated, transparent constantly audited and give all info to the public domain.

Their would be terms of a certain number of years if the person defaulted he would have his assets seized in effect a forced sale or fraud charges and possible jail time.

That is my point. In your system, I can't start a business until I've either saved up enough money for the building, machinery, and inventory, or I've got enough equity in something to collateralize a loan from a central bank. You've now made entreprenuership impossible for anyone in the middle or lower class.

But let's say that I was finally able to save up the money. This bank will then make the loan to me at 0% interest without having borrowed it from someone else. It must then simply print the money which results in inflation because we now have more money chasing the same number of goods. But you say that inflation is caused by interest, and since this loan has no interest then we must be able to avoid inflation. So the money must now come from someone who doesn't expect a return on their investment. There is only one group who falls into this category. TAXPAYERS.

Now every tax payer in the nation is forced into giving me a loan at 0% rather than investing their money according to their own prerogotive. Obviously, I'm not the only one who wants a loan, and according to your mentor Richard Cook, the right to credit must be extended to everyone. Wow!!! That sure is a lot of tax that will need to be paid to keep innovation going at the rate it has been for the last several decades. In fact, so much tax will be required that you'll have to eliminate personal income, and just make it the responsibility of the central bank to dispurse income according to what it feels the needs of each individual are.

Sound familiar? It's called communism. Do you think there might be a reason why this has never worked?
 
It should be noted that communism is a very idealistic form of government in a theoretical sense. That's why many countries adopted it in the 20th century and tried it out. It sounds good on paper. The poor will be looked after. Everyone will have a job. Everyone will be supplied a home. One big problem though: it doesn't work in the real world.

As they say the path to hell is paved in good intentions.
 
Quote from slider123456:

All I know is that my house would require half the labor to pay off and that the cost of most goods would drop.

Goods are always correctly priced in an efficient economy. The seller will always charge what the buyer is willing to pay in order to realize max profit. Right now a 1/2 gallon of milk is deemed to be worth 0.002% of the average family's income. That will not change regardless of what the economic system is if people are free to make their purchases.

In regards to your house, you are free to pay for a house with cash right now. But you don't want to wait until you've saved all the money. So the bank is going to give you a loan that charges you the cost to build the house, as well as the time it would've taken you to save up the money, plus a profit that compensates them for their effort as well as the risk that you'll default and stick them with a home that they must sell cheap.
 
Quote from slider123456:

No all I accept is that I pay $550,000 dollars for a $250,000 dollar house. That is proof to me.

No, you are paying $550,000 for a house that will be worth about $550,000 when you finish paying it off in 30-years. It's called time value of money. They are chargin you the future price of the house.

Consider the alternative.

Let's say that at current rates the payment on that loan would be about $1500 a month. Instead, you rent a place for $1000/month and save the $500 resulting in $6000 the first year and you increase that each year with a 3% cost of living raise. Let's even say that you invest the savings in a stock market and get 9% yearly return.

You decide not to finance any of the house in order to avoid interest and instead save all the money in order to pay cash. Using average home appreciation numbers of 4% yearly, it will take you 25 years to save up the money for the equivalent house which is now selling for $650K. During that time you'll have paid $500K in rent, so now the house really cost you $1,150,000.

I'd say the bank is doing you a favor by giving it to you for $550K.:D
 
Quote from Cache Landing:

That is my point. In your system, I can't start a business until I've either saved up enough money for the building, machinery, and inventory, or I've got enough equity in something to collateralize a loan from a central bank. You've now made entreprenuership impossible for anyone in the middle or lower class.

But let's say that I was finally able to save up the money. This bank will then make the loan to me at 0% interest without having borrowed it from someone else. It must then simply print the money which results in inflation because we now have more money chasing the same number of goods. But you say that inflation is caused by interest, and since this loan has no interest then we must be able to avoid inflation. So the money must now come from someone who doesn't expect a return on their investment. There is only one group who falls into this category. TAXPAYERS.

Now every tax payer in the nation is forced into giving me a loan at 0% rather than investing their money according to their own prerogotive. Obviously, I'm not the only one who wants a loan, and according to your mentor Richard Cook, the right to credit must be extended to everyone. Wow!!! That sure is a lot of tax that will need to be paid to keep innovation going at the rate it has been for the last several decades. In fact, so much tax will be required that you'll have to eliminate personal income, and just make it the responsibility of the central bank to dispurse income according to what it feels the needs of each individual are.

Sound familiar? It's called communism. Do you think there might be a reason why this has never worked?

No you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Their would be an institution that would basically print money. They could only print money if you were qualified like today. If you defaulted there would be asset seizures or charges laid They could only print money for those 2 reasons. There would be no inflation since interest drives inflation.
Since everything is much cheaper people would pay taxes %5 would likely be enough. Banks would still give out loans to people who had a good credit who had worked their way up the credit rating just like now.
This is not communism! This is capitilism without interest the state would not own your house. They would run public infrastructure as stewars for society like they are now.
 
Quote from Cache Landing:

Goods are always correctly priced in an efficient economy. The seller will always charge what the buyer is willing to pay in order to realize max profit. Right now a 1/2 gallon of milk is deemed to be worth 0.002% of the average family's income. That will not change regardless of what the economic system is if people are free to make their purchases.

In regards to your house, you are free to pay for a house with cash right now. But you don't want to wait until you've saved all the money. So the bank is going to give you a loan that charges you the cost to build the house, as well as the time it would've taken you to save up the money, plus a profit that compensates them for their effort as well as the risk that you'll default and stick them with a home that they must sell cheap.

Since they can take the house if I do not pay or put me in jail I do think that the risk vs reward for banks is reasonable. In order for the risk reward to be right they should make around %5 profit since their are huge sums of money being lent. In order for them to make %5 that would mean that around %40 of loans were defaulting and leaving absolutely no assets. Even if right now %20 were defaulting they would still be making an average of %100 profit on houses anyway.
 
Quote from slider123456:

No you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Their would be an institution that would basically print money. They could only print money if you were qualified like today. If you defaulted there would be asset seizures or charges laid They could only print money for those 2 reasons. There would be no inflation since interest drives inflation.
Since everything is much cheaper people would pay taxes %5 would likely be enough. Banks would still give out loans to people who had a good credit who had worked their way up the credit rating just like now.
This is not communism! This is capitilism without interest the state would not own your house. They would run public infrastructure as stewars for society like they are now.

I'm not misunderstanding what you are saying. You keep stating a falsehood, insisting that inflation is caused by insterest. It isn't caused by interest, it is caused by more money chasing a proportionately smaller quantity of goods. If your bank prints money to make loans, they have just caused inflation. It doesn't matter whether they charge interest or not.

Price of goods is determined by supply and demand, not interest. If the bank prints money, there is now more money in circulation even though the quantity of goods has not increased. People are now willing to pay more for the same goods because current prices represent a smaller portion of their income. People don't value things in nominal dollars, they value them by what portion of their income they must spend to buy them.

If you increase the quantity of dollars in the system without increasing the quantity of milk proportionately, then the price of milk goes up. Interest had nothing to do with it.
 
Quote from slider123456:

Since they can take the house if I do not pay or put me in jail I do think that the risk vs reward for banks is reasonable. In order for the risk reward to be right they should make around %5 profit since their are huge sums of money being lent. In order for them to make %5 that would mean that around %40 of loans were defaulting and leaving absolutely no assets. Even if right now %20 were defaulting they would still be making an average of %100 profit on houses anyway.

They aren't making 100% profit on your home. They are making 6% per year before inflation and expenses. There is a huge difference.

IOW, they just invested $250K in you. It is taking them 25 years to make 100% return on that money, and all the while they were incurring operating expenses and watching the value of each dollar you're paying them back become lower and lower.

Nobody would ever invest in a business that had a guaranteed return that low. The banks compensate for incredibly low returns by leveraging their money. If they couldn't leverage, you'd be paying closer to 20-25% interest for it to be worth their time to lend to you.
 
Quote from slider123456:

Usury (the real definition is ANY lending with interest). is the cause of unemployment/overproduction and inflation/underprodution. In a system with no interest everything is balanced people have the exact amout of money they need to buy all the products they produce hence no overproduction leading to unemployment and no underproduction leading to inflation.

When Interest is introduced their is a shortage of money hence overproduction. In other words the goods are worth more than the money available to buy them which necessitates exporting or unemployment. On the other hand if there is an underproduction from increased efficiencies this leads to inflation as their is more money than goods to buy leading to a raised interest rate hence more investment from foreign countries. This will balance out between 2 or more countries as long as one is overproducing and one is underproducing. When there is not a balance and both countries are over-producing then unemployment will result. The other problem is there is interest being taken out of all countries leading to not enough money being available to balance it all out leading to someone failing and unemployment in one country or the other whereas with no interest this does not happen and also the necessary dance of import/export which is needed when interest is introduced is not needed.

The other problem is the authority of banks to take interest. The value of money does not come from our belief in it but more correctly from our belief in it buying the goods we produce. The banks do not produce these goods, we do, so why are they getting a percentage of everything we the society makes. Are we paying them tremendous amounts of money to confound a system that should work if interest was taken out and to be our overseers and if so why? Why do we not take our destiny into our own hands with a interest free system that is simpler because it does not involve the intricate dance of import/export between 2 or more countries or the inevitable spending deficiency introduced by interest.

The amount of money we pay banks to confound a system that is very simple is staggering and is the cause of someone failing even if they make no mistakes because their is not enough money to buy all the products we make. On a $200,000 loan the total that would be paid is $500,000 over 30 years so $300,000 for them to do nothing. The interest on this loan is necessarily incorporated in the next wave of loans where interest is paid again and again and again until after many generations it is paid off. This interest causes huge imbalances in the world and is the likely the main cause for many many 3rd world countries. We pay them all this to make a fairly simple system overly complex.

If we kept the money we paid the banks we would likely have massive surpluses and a continually better quality of life from more and more efficient manufacturing techniques which would lead to deflation and a better quality of life where we could work less and have the same quality of life or work the same amount and have a continually better quality of life instead of having to work more and more to have the same quality of life.

Does anyone understand why the system is run like this with an overly complex and efficient system instead of a simple and efficient one?

Hey pal, why don't you get your GED, take a few community college courses, and then we can have this conversation?

I hope to God you're a live trader.
 
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