Intelligent Design is not creationism

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
Of course, however the force we call Nature is simply an expressed power of God, not separate from God, a nature of God, an agent of God's own nature...we can imagine the end of Nature as we can imagine an end to the physical world, but it is logically impossible to imagine that there is not a totality. The totality of all being God by definition. A completely empty condition is still a totality just as much as a completely full condition is a totality. God is empty of any desire, because God is complete. Nature is just an expression of an aspect of God's nature.
Nature is complete, but is like an infinite set, an infinite set being complete in itself, yet limited by the fact that it is not a totality. Infinity as we understand it is defined, can be defines, and thus and has boundaries. An infinite set can be bracketed, can be thought of as separate from different infinite sets. God cannot be bracketed, as there is nothing outside of God to create brackets to define God as separate from something else.
What you will fail to grasp, or are too stubborn to admit is that every aspect and every power of God is whole and complete in itself, just as nature is whole and complete and doesn't need anything else...at the same time that nature is both whole and complete, it is just a power of God, not the totality of God.
We as humans can't actually understand what being complete is, because our nature itself is not complete as we experience separation from God, separation from completeness, and we desire more and more, we desire to be complete, we actually desire to be one with God, even if a person is an atheist, he desires to be complete, and God is complete.
By the way, my ID is not creationism.
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or .....in a word....... nature.
 
Quote from DerekD:
Which definition would that be?
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It's a TrolZzzz definition

"Nature is complete....."

means it is not complete.....
".....yet limited by the fact that it is not a totality"

and a definition ....
...... just as nature is whole and complete and doesn't need anything else...

means it is not and needs something else.....
..... it is just a power of God, not the totality of God.


A TrollZZzzz ID/Creationism... Nature+1 = God.
is naturally followed with....

God+1 = Gilbert
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Nature is complete
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What is "complete"? What is "Nature"? You can define whatever you want.

According to your definition, your nature is not mine. :D

You are playing the word game. It doesn't lead to any meaningful discussion.
 
Quote from 2cents:

god + 1 = god and u may call it gilbert if u want... read some cantor...
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god +1 cannot = god and u may call it god if u want... read some math and some logic
 
You don't know what complete means?

You don't know what Nature is? When I say "laws of Nature" you don't know what Nature is in that phrase?

Yes, I do suspect you have a different nature than mine in some ways. Perhaps not a different nature on a biological level, but on an intellectual level.

It is interesting that we talk about the laws of Nature easily as they relate to the physical happenings, but we have no established laws of Nature as they relate to the non physical, i.e. the intellectual field, the psychological field, etc. Does this mean that what takes place in the mind is not subject to the laws of Nature? Is there something within the realm of Nature that is not bound by the laws of Nature?

Seems to me that you are the one playing word games.

Quote from yip1997:

What is "complete"? What is "Nature"? You can define whatever you want.

According to your definition, your nature is not mine. :D

You are playing the word game. It doesn't lead to any meaningful discussion.
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You have a definition of God that God can be added to. That there is something outside of God that can be added to God. This suggest that God would have a limit, which could be added to, that God was not complete.

God by definition is unlimited and has no boundaries. Nothing external, nothing outside of God, everything is within God.

So where does this +1 that you are adding to God come from?

It can't come from outside of God, as there is nothing outside of God. It would have to be coming from inside of God. So God takes +1 from inside of Himself, and adds it to Himself, which makes Him no Greater.



It is impossible to add +1 to God and have that concept be anything other than starting with the definition that God is not complete, and God is limited, and God can be added to.

That is not the generally accepted concept of God by most thinkers.




Quote from stu:

It's a TrolZzzz definition

"Nature is complete....."

means it is not complete.....
".....yet limited by the fact that it is not a totality"

and a definition ....
...... just as nature is whole and complete and doesn't need anything else...

means it is not and needs something else.....
..... it is just a power of God, not the totality of God.


A TrollZZzzz ID/Creationism... Nature+1 = God.
is naturally followed with....

God+1 = Gilbert
More...
 
If Nature has the same properties as God, it is God.

If Nature doesn't have the same properties as God, it is not God.

Most scientists think the universe had a beginning, a time when the universe came into being, when Nature made Her appearance.

Is there a leading theory that Nature created God?

A Shakespearean play has three acts. The first act is complete. The second act is complete. The third act is complete. The play is complete.

The first act is not the play, though it is complete.

The second act is not the play, though it is complete.

The third act is not the play, though it is complete.

The first act is within the play and is complete.
The second act is within the play and is complete.
The third act is within the play and is complete.

God is complete. The first act of God in one of the plays of God is creation of the Universe. The creation of the Universe is complete.

God is complete. The second act of God
in the same play is the maintenance of evolution of the Universe. The maintenance and evolution of the Universe is complete.

God is complete. The third act of God in the same play is the destruction of the Universe. The destruction of the Universe is complete.

We see complete parts, complete acts which are not the whole, which is also complete.

Nature as most scientists define Nature is not God as Nature has a beginning and end. Yet Nature is complete.




Quote from stu:

or .....in a word....... nature.
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Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

You have a definition of God that God can be added to. That there is something outside of God that can be added to God. This suggest that God would have a limit, which could be added to, that God was not complete.
God by definition is unlimited and has no boundaries. Nothing external, nothing outside of God, everything is within God.
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Then by definition there is something God cannot be. God cannot be limited.

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

So where does this +1 that you are adding to God come from?

It can't come from outside of God, as there is nothing outside of God. It would have to be coming from inside of God. So God takes +1 from inside of Himself, and adds it to Himself, which makes Him no Greater.
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By more definition, there are things God cannot do. He cannot take from outside Himself. He cannot be greater. By definition , God cannot take +1 from outside Itself.

God IS limited.

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

It is impossible to add +1 to God and have that concept be anything other than starting with the definition that God is not complete, and God is limited, and God can be added to
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By your own definition, you have shown how God is is not complete, how God is limited, how therefore God can be added to.

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

That is not the generally accepted concept of God by most thinkers.
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Then perhaps it's time for a re-think.



Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

You have a definition of God that God can be added to. That there is something outside of God that can be added to God. This suggest that God would have a limit, which could be added to, that God was not complete.

God by definition is unlimited and has no boundaries. Nothing external, nothing outside of God, everything is within God.

So where does this +1 that you are adding to God come from?

It can't come from outside of God, as there is nothing outside of God. It would have to be coming from inside of God. So God takes +1 from inside of Himself, and adds it to Himself, which makes Him no Greater.



It is impossible to add +1 to God and have that concept be anything other than starting with the definition that God is not complete, and God is limited, and God can be added to.

That is not the generally accepted concept of God by most thinkers.
More...
 
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