mate, nothing personal and i don't mean to be dismissive here, honest. simply, i haven't read your post in its entirety nor taken much time to focus, cause:Quote from stu:
I hope you are not being serious.
one understanding is all we need!!??... I am misreading an ironical post, no?
just in case thenâ¦
Others may have an agenda to call babies atheist, I do not, so you are absent some information here. That I have an agenda is an accusation made by ddunbar. He chose at one point to use that approach rather than deal with the substance of the argument I put forward. As ddunbar has raised the issue on two occasions I am aware of , without any prompt whatsoever from me, and when I have not even been involved in the posts, it can hardly be reasonable to assume it is I who has an agenda on the matter.
ddunbar appears to me to make a refreshingly clear and unambiguous separation between his religious belief and the science of things. I would say it is both unusual and reassuring these days to hear such broad minded and rational arguments toward the illogical standpoint of Teleology, from someone who says he also believes in ID, as ddunbar has, but without messing science into it. More power to ddunbar.
Behind my argument was never to establish the position that babies are atheist , that does not in itself concern me at all whether they are or not. What I have been trying to explain time after time but which is constantly denied or ignored by ddunbar, is that the understanding how babies are (or would be if you like) atheist, goes quite some way to help appreciate how one of the most valid definition of atheist is ignored dismissed and not generally understood. Now again, I am not concerned that it is, per se , but I do object to someone saying this ....
....but then ignoring dismissing hand waving away denying valid definitions himself.
Moreover, if ddunbar (or you 2cents) cannot appreciate that simple point of view, what true validity is there in taking Teleologist or ZZzztroll to task when they make all those undefined unsupportable and contradictory assertions based upon their own sets of absurd arguments.
If you will cherry pick areas where you too will employ any of those things, such as "only one ...definition is all we need"â¦. (apologies if that is not what you really meant) then you are handing to them no more, no better, than they throw at you. Those evangelical lettuce sales have always found a gap in the market under such confusions.
My main issue with ddunbar is that no matter how unpalatable a proposition might appear to science or belief , the argument for or against is not rationally made by ignoring the facts within it. My assertion is ddunbar is not separating his beliefs away from this one, as well or successfully as he obviously otherwise does . I am curious to understand why he would be reluctant to do so on what I see as the trivial argument that babies are atheist.
1. wife's pregnant, i need to spend our week-end on other stuff than sterile semantic quarrels, or "he did that first" type stuff
2. our baby-to-be, to our knowledge (but we cld always be wrong) currently has no NOTION of god or otherwise therefore i won't entertain any discussion aiming at tagging him/her a theist / a-theist... that's pointless and i have better things to do with my time...
3. my post to ddunbar was perfectly sincere
4. if YOU decide to "generalize" what i said (wrote) as you did, fine, but those are YOUR words, not mine...
i wish you and everybody on this thread an excellent week-end ;-) don't miss out guys / girls