neophyte321
Guest
An alternative? Are you suggesting that a mere 10,000 years after leaving our caves that we are capable of limiting the altneratives to 2? Perhaps the Science has yet to be invented that explains how things came to be.
It seems that many present and past scientists have philosophized about the question without resorting to childish name calling, or ridiculing one side or the other. Indeed, the father of the Scientific Method proposed his own theory on "Intelligent Design"... and How I could misrepresent Hawkings , WHEN I SIMPLY QUOTED HIM, is beyond me.
My Analysis? This thread is a total fucking joke, filled with small-minded, bigoted people. These people are basically advocating that Aristotle be banned from public schools.
Frankly, this thread could have been condensed into a few posts, because there really is not alot to debate about in concrete terms. I've played devil's advocate, and basically wasted my time, mainly because I felt compelled to based on all the "flying unicorn" rhetoric and "christian wacko" references.
"Things look designed" ...... there really isn't much to argue about in this statement. Indeed, Giants in philosophy and Science have noticed the same thing. It seems the crew here has decided for everybody... ... "NOPE! It's Either CHANCE OR YOUR WORTHLESS SANTA CLAUS FAIRY TALES!"
later, adios', not-if-i-see-you-first.... done and doner
PRE-CHRIST CHRISTIANS... you know, christians long before christ even walked the earth. (if he ever did):
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Plato (c. 427âc. 347 BCE) posited a "demiurge" of supreme wisdom and intelligence as the creator of the cosmos in his work Timaeus. For Plato, the demiurge lacked the supernatural ability to create "ex nihilo" or out of nothing. The demiurge was able only to organize the "anake." The anake was the only other co-existent element or presence in Plato's cosmogony. Plato's teleological perspective is also built upon the analysis of a priori order and structure in the world which he had already presented in The Republic.
Aristotle (c. 384â322 BCE) also developed the idea of a creator of the cosmos, often referred to as the "Prime Mover" in his work Metaphysics. Aristotle's views have very strong aspects of a teleological argument, specifically that of a prime mover who, so to speak, looks ahead in setting the cosmos into motion. Indeed, Aristotle argued that all nature reflects inherent purposiveness and direction.
Cicero (c. 106âc. 43 BCE) also made one of the earliest known teleological arguments. In de Natura Deorum (On the Nature of the Gods) Cicero stated, "The divine power is to be found in a principle of reason which pervades the whole of nature". He was writing from the cultural background of the Roman religion. In Roman mythology the creator goddess, Gaia was borrowed from Greek mythology. The Romans called her Tellus or Terra.
"When you see a sundial or a water-clock, you see that it tells the time by design and not by chance. How then can you imagine that the universe as a whole is devoid of purpose and intelligence, when it embraces everything, including these artifacts themselves and their artificers?" (Cicero, De Natura Deorum, ii. 34)
Augustine of Hippo (354â430 CE) presented a classic teleological perspective in his work, City of God. He describes the "city of man" and essentially posits that God's plan is to replace the city of man with the city of God (at some as-yet-unknown point in the future). Whether this is to happen gradually or suddenly is not made clear in Augustine's work. He did not, however, make a formal argument for the existence of God; rather, God's existence is already presumed and Augustine is giving a proposed view of God's teleology. Augustine's perspective follows from and is built upon the neo-Platonic views of his era, which in turn have their original roots in Plato's cosmogony.