2cents wrote:
I don't blame you. Take away your philosophical materialism and you've got nothing left.
I don't blame you. Take away your philosophical materialism and you've got nothing left.
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Intelligent Design is not creationism
- Thread starter Teleologist
- Start date
absolutely incorrect. evolution is totally unconcerned with ID. you guys scientifically prove you have a theory and we'll listen... seems that time hasn't come yet, and the way you are going at it, it will never come... nobody's even trying to convince you... you are the one who started this thread...Quote from Teleologist:
It's actually the opposite. It's the ID critics that demand that ID supporters prove a negative by showing that evolution is impossible. Also, the only evidence the ID critics will accept for ID is observing the designer in action. In other words, they're looking for extraordinary evidence that'll shock them into belief.
I, take my cue from history, where extraordinary theories have been supported by circumstantial evidence, gradually gathered through an open-ended investigation. What's so great about all of this is that I don't have to convince you. I don't need the consent of critics to proceed with thinking about things from a teleological perspective. In the end, there's only one judge to determine who is right: Nature, with the clues she gives us.
Quote from Jampilier:
Calling evolution "reasonable" is not science. Where is the specific evidence that requires such a process?
The statement that "Calling evolution 'reasonable' is not science," is true, but meaningless, at least, it's meaningless to me.
Evolution is simply a hypothesis that can be confirmed by verifiable testing. That is the entire scientific method, and nothing more is required. Therefore evolution is science.
You ask for specific evidence requiring evolution. No evidence "requires" evolution. Evidence confirms that evolution occurs.
Quote from Teleologist:
You evidently don't know what an argument from authority is. The Dembski quote was to show that a prominent member of the ID community doesn't posit the supernatural in his ID hypothesizing. This was to counter your claim that ID is all about proving the existence of God. Is Dembski allowed to be an authority on his own views? LOL.
Same goes for the Krauze article. No appeal to authority there either. Just the historical fact that Darwin's idea took 60 years before it became subject to scientific testing.
I don't care what Dembski's equations posit. I care whether they are testable. If they're not, then they are the mathematical equivalent of a game of solitaire -- irrelevant to all but the author.
Your post from Krauze/Ruse is an attempt to suggest that because someone thinks that Darwin's theory was untestible with sufficient rigor for 60 years, that this makes it a fact.
The fact is that Darwin's theory was based on his observations -- he was testing his theory via those observations, and based on the measurement limits available to him at the time, his test was the best available.
Later, the theory was improved on with better measurements.
You are attempting to suggest that the theory is not scientific for 60 years, based not on the actual results of Darwin's observations, but because some other author SAYS that the theory was unscientific for 60 years.
And THAT is an argument from authority.
In reality, thought is the substance of all things.
Thought is an impulse of pure energy. It is more subtle than anything in the physical domain.
Thought travels far faster than the speed of light. In fact, light is actually a physical occurrence that emerges long after the birthing of the dream of separation. So while a light year can seem to be quite a vast thing in your world of physics, rest assured that thought travels instantaneously. In fact, thought is immediately present everywhere.
All fields of thought, then, in a sense wash up to the shoreline of your being. You elect what influences will enter into your sphere. Some of those will pass through, and some you will begin to become identified with. You will take them on as your thought. You will form an agreement with the nature of that thought. You will value that thought, and therefore, create experiences that flow from your agreement, your valuation.
For virtually all beings born within the human sphere, one such agreement is, "I am just the body, and therefore, I am separate from all others." That is merely an agreement, a decision to create experience. The body is the result of that thought - the attempt to create something that succeeds in separating you from the Mind of God.
You are equally free to say within yourself:
"I am more than a body. My mind is vast and unlimited.
And that is the deeper essence of my identity and my existence.
I am in perfect communication with all forms of life at all times.
I need only withdraw my attention from my perception of my body to access communication with anyone at any time."
As it stands, you have not forgotten your body, even for a moment. And yet, a moment is all it takes to realize that you are not a body.
You have not ever really succeeded in turning the body into a separation device. For as soon as you decided to dream the impossible dream; the dream of separation...in the moment that that began to emerge, you were given the Holy Spirit, Who translated the body into a communication device instead.
This means that the body is constantly receiving input in the form of subtle energy vibration from everything and everyone around it. You are like a giant radio station that is picking up and transmitting signals constantly.
If you would like proof of this, and especially if you would like proof of how powerful thought is as it expresses vibration through the body, simply create what you call in your world dowsing rods. Take two pieces of metal. It could be two parts of a coat hanger. Bend them so that you can gently hold one end, and hold them in your hands about six inches from your body.
Then have a friend stand about twenty feet away and have them think thoughts of negativity, such as, "I am unworthy. I am not worthy of being loved. I have no energy. I'm not worth anything." As they are doing that, walk toward them and see how close you get before your dowsing rods of metal begin to move around. Then, back up and find just the edge where their energy field is influencing the rods.
Then back up about twenty or thirty feet, and have them change their mind. Have them begin to think loving thoughts, such as, "I am one with God. Love flows through me perfectly. I am so glad to be alive!" They need not say it out loud. They need not move a muscle. They need only think differently. Then again walk toward them, and see when you find the point where the rods in your hands begin to move about. You will find that their energy field is much larger with the positive thought than with the negative thought.
Now, your body is like a divining rod. And so is everyone else's. Therefore, those with confidence, those who love themselves, those who are not concerned with the good opinions of the world, who just go forward in the direction of what they love, are the ones that seem to gain the greatest support in the universe.
Jesus
Thought is an impulse of pure energy. It is more subtle than anything in the physical domain.
Thought travels far faster than the speed of light. In fact, light is actually a physical occurrence that emerges long after the birthing of the dream of separation. So while a light year can seem to be quite a vast thing in your world of physics, rest assured that thought travels instantaneously. In fact, thought is immediately present everywhere.
All fields of thought, then, in a sense wash up to the shoreline of your being. You elect what influences will enter into your sphere. Some of those will pass through, and some you will begin to become identified with. You will take them on as your thought. You will form an agreement with the nature of that thought. You will value that thought, and therefore, create experiences that flow from your agreement, your valuation.
For virtually all beings born within the human sphere, one such agreement is, "I am just the body, and therefore, I am separate from all others." That is merely an agreement, a decision to create experience. The body is the result of that thought - the attempt to create something that succeeds in separating you from the Mind of God.
You are equally free to say within yourself:
"I am more than a body. My mind is vast and unlimited.
And that is the deeper essence of my identity and my existence.
I am in perfect communication with all forms of life at all times.
I need only withdraw my attention from my perception of my body to access communication with anyone at any time."
As it stands, you have not forgotten your body, even for a moment. And yet, a moment is all it takes to realize that you are not a body.
You have not ever really succeeded in turning the body into a separation device. For as soon as you decided to dream the impossible dream; the dream of separation...in the moment that that began to emerge, you were given the Holy Spirit, Who translated the body into a communication device instead.
This means that the body is constantly receiving input in the form of subtle energy vibration from everything and everyone around it. You are like a giant radio station that is picking up and transmitting signals constantly.
If you would like proof of this, and especially if you would like proof of how powerful thought is as it expresses vibration through the body, simply create what you call in your world dowsing rods. Take two pieces of metal. It could be two parts of a coat hanger. Bend them so that you can gently hold one end, and hold them in your hands about six inches from your body.
Then have a friend stand about twenty feet away and have them think thoughts of negativity, such as, "I am unworthy. I am not worthy of being loved. I have no energy. I'm not worth anything." As they are doing that, walk toward them and see how close you get before your dowsing rods of metal begin to move around. Then, back up and find just the edge where their energy field is influencing the rods.
Then back up about twenty or thirty feet, and have them change their mind. Have them begin to think loving thoughts, such as, "I am one with God. Love flows through me perfectly. I am so glad to be alive!" They need not say it out loud. They need not move a muscle. They need only think differently. Then again walk toward them, and see when you find the point where the rods in your hands begin to move about. You will find that their energy field is much larger with the positive thought than with the negative thought.
Now, your body is like a divining rod. And so is everyone else's. Therefore, those with confidence, those who love themselves, those who are not concerned with the good opinions of the world, who just go forward in the direction of what they love, are the ones that seem to gain the greatest support in the universe.
Jesus
Quote from Jampilier:
The next guy is also making his decrees which may conflict with mine. Retreating into the imaginary "godhood" of an infant is not what is meant by being as a child to enter the Kingdom.
You can decree an illusion, and the next guy can decree an illusion. Illusions can clash. Illusion cannot clash with the Truth. Decree the Truth and you will have no conflicts.
Retreating into the imaginary "frail human" of an infant is not what is meant by being as a child to enter the Kingdom.
Jesus