Intelligent Design is not creationism

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Really TK9, why don't you come back into the chatroom and process out all of your resentments. Res will be there to help you with your emotionally traumatic past that keep impinging on the present topic...and your obsession with me.

Quote from Thunderdog:

Evidently. And who can blame him for sticking with a "winning" formula?

Time and again, when Z begins "contributing" to a thread it marks the beginning of that thread's decline. ET is replete with example after example of threads being hijacked by him in his attempt to hold court. That it happens to be a kangaroo court is a detail that appears to be lost on him. The important thing is that the spotlight and attention are solidly fixed on him. Surprisingly, his latest alias has endured the longest thus far. His other two aliases that I know of have been banned after what I think was a shorter shelf life. Do you think that means he may be...evolving? Regardless, he has not quite yet managed to crawl out of the swamp. Perhaps at the next iteration.

 

[jem]

I just want to make clear. KJ

Susskinds versions of landscapes, is the same as saying other universes. According to his string theory math, there are millions of other universes, thus there anthropic princple only gives the illusion of design.

However, in reality there is absolutely no indication of another universe.

You are now promoting blind faith in the existence of millions of other universes. Unproven unseen, unfalsifiable.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from 2 cents:
Really? Why do people have miscarriages?

Quote from 2 cents:
Because the fetus is rejected by the woman. People don't have miscarriages...women do.

So women cause their own miscarriages?

Quote from 2 cents:
Mother Nature doesn't make mistakes

Quote from 2 cents:If Mother Nature doesn't make mistakes, what do we need medicines for?

Quote from 2 cents:
We need medicines to counteract disease.

Mother nature doesn't make mistakes, human beings do.

Are you saying here that all human disease is the result of mistakes on the part of humans?

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from kjkent1:

I had to read it twice to understand your thought stream.

I haven't investigated any recent peer reviewed science that finds that environmental stress effects germ cell DNA in any predictable manner. I don't discount the possibility, however.

Assuming you're correct, then living organisms are in some part their own intelligent designer. What you would have, then, would be a relatively unguided random evolution at the beginning, stressed by a much more hostile but also varied environment, relatively free of other organic competition. Then, as time progresses and life becomes more specialized and competitive, the environment becomes less of the channel for change, and the organisms more.

Probably some inversely proportionate ratio involved. In which case, randomness would become less important as evolution progresses.

And, at present, humans being the first lifeform (on this planet, anyway) that can substantially effect their environment, perhaps randomness will be relegated to a very minor participant in evolution (except, that statistically, whatever we do as humans, seems to fall along a normal distribution curve, so maybe randomness continues to prevail despite our best efforts to thwart its inexorable effect).

But, however interesting this proposition may be (and it certainly is interesting to me) none of this really addresses the argument in this thread, which is mainly, and typically for ET, an argument over the existence of an "extrinsic" vis-a-vis an "intrinsic" intelligent designer.

My position is still that there is no evidence for extrinsic intelligent design. As for intrinsic, I don't have enough background knowledge to discuss the possibility intelligently.

But, I'll have to investigate further. Thanks for your thoughts.

The two best places to check out things are professional organizations (their membership) and their periodicals and associated publishing houses. I check 501 (c) (3)'s as well since we have a foundation to relate to such. And government sponsored stuff is pertinent.

AAAS is a good US science oriented example as is NSF. NTIS generally picks up any publication nowadays but a some of us are mostly pre NTIS.

I understand the ET discussion and it's level. I was just interjecting where the "science" part of it resides.

to merge that stuff with the other just take the "bridge" across via the GAIA.

The "split" of science and spirit occurred late in our culture and it probably isn't a real split.... The "measurement" of the scientific method seems to be limitied to the tooling for making measurements.

Some of the very old secret societies handle a lot of the elimination of this supposed rift. Most of the signers of the declaration of Independance were of this mind and affiliation.

Once a person is able to see that there is different tooling for different approaches and viewpoints, there is no longer an exclusivity of the science (measure it in only one way) orientation.

I felt that introducing the idea that nature's beings didn't have blueprints cast in stone (nature) and that the nurturing during a lifetime afforded blueprint changes that were passed on to subsequent generations was just an additional stream of understanding. We do see several additional streams that are spirit oriented and they do have their "external " omponents as well as their internal components just like the former example pair.

Good luck in your reading. I am friends with about five people in the guiness book of records who work the biological innovation stuff. several are considered idiot savants. which is a comment in itself.

 

[Artie21]

Quote from I am...:

This is an excellent approach to the Kingdom...to readily admit not understanding. This is to perceive innocently. Children do this...and "of such is the Kingdom of God".

I will then describe the Kingdom from many different angles, until you can glimpse it for yourself...remember it.

The world remains uncaused by anything outside of your own mind. This is the "inside". When you look "outside" you are actually looking at the effect of mind..."inside". Until you see that it is inside, you will not understand the outside.

Within your own mind, you are given complete dominion. This is your kingdom. This is what I meant by "the kingdom of God is within you". You will soon see just how true this is.

Within the one Christ Mind, individuation occurs. Understand that you are an individuation of the one Christ Mind, the "only begotten Son of God". Many individuations have gotten together to create a world of experience. What you might call a consensus "reality", I call a consensus "experience" because they are "made" not "begotten" relative to reality. There is interplay between individuated minds that are ultimately of one Mind. Shakespeare spoke well when he penned, "All the world is a stage, and we are merely players".

For a moment, perceive the one Christ Mind as an ocean, where individual waves arise, made of the same substance - perfect freedom, perfect knowledge of and union with God. In that freedom, the power to decide or to desire is present. And desire begets worlds without end. That is what your entire planet once came from. That is what your entire solar system came from. Your entire universe was born of desire.

Individuated minds desire to play in worlds, as players upon stages...changing masks, changing roles, reading scripts written by interactive minds. Between "lives" you go "backstage", rest, and change costumes for your next role. When roles are taken too seriously, insane notions are entertained. The acronym for seriously insane notions is "sin"...and that is all. These drive the chaos you then experience, and fear sets in to grip you, and keep you playing the same roles, reading the same scripts over and over. Another player comes along and taps you on the shoulder and says, "hey, this is just a play. No need to take it so seriously. Would you rather have a tragedy or a comedy?" Such players help those who have been "hoodwinked" to remember the truth and become free.

Never underestimate the power of the individuated mind - within the Mind of Christ - to have complete dominion over all experiences within this drama. Know that nothing can "happen" to you without your permission. There are no accidents. Whatever has seemed to "happen" to you has been by your permission. You cannot even be deceived by your own mind without your own permission. Thus, you are the only one with power to keep yourself in the "prison" of a small body-mind package. Now you know why it is not possible to "prove" anything to the mind that has invited self-deception. Those who are playing "roles" wish to temporarily believe their role is "real" in order to experience well the experience the role offers. Awareness is for those who begin to realize they are in a "Midsummers Night Dream" and desire now to awaken from the dream.

The key, then, to the transformation of your lived experience, while the body lasts, is to assume complete responsibility for how you are choosing to use the mind. Remember only you can think a thought, only you can have an idea. That idea cannot enter your domain, over which you have complete dominion, unless you have sent it an invitation. That is simply the way it is.

The more you come to truly desire only that which reflects the truth of who you are, you will be able to tolerate less and less variance within yourself. This is why when any mind truly begins to awaken, it becomes more and more painful to continue certain thoughts or behaviors that to not reflect the deep desire of the heart.

Recognize that what you desire you will experience, for desire is perfectly free. That desire, that power to desire, is within you and you will never be without it. It is impossible to be desire-less, since you can only find yourself to be where you have desired to be. Recognize that what you desire literally creates the pathway whereby you will experience either Heaven or hell, peace or turbulence, love or fear. In each moment of desire, right where you are, you have just birthed an entire world. For out of that desire, you will create your perceptions of everything from yourself to the farthest stars, all in a split second, a moment of timelessness.

As a small example, the sky can be full of dark clouds and pouring down rain...for all those who desire this consensus experience. But any individual mind having that experience can desire - choose again - another experience. Such a mind can literally experience an opening of sunshine in the "same" sky that everyone else experiences as black, cloudy and rainy. At this point you are not in the exact same world as the rest, but rather have created another world that is in every way identical, except for the sunshiny sky you now experience.

All possibilities, all permutations of "chance", all "scenarios", all "events", all "things" exist now, both simultaneously and consecutively. Out of all these possibilities, you experience the one you desire in this moment. Thus, things don't just "happen", for all has "happened". You choose what you will experience. Time is an illusion created by YOU - spirit - "moving" THROUGH a series of choices to experience. Time does not move past YOU, or happen TO you. If you think it can move "past" you, you will be stuck in the "past", not really "living". Rather, you are the master of time when you operate from the "now". As you are constantly choosing, you are constantly "making" your experiences. Time marches on only in a world of perceptions, not in a world of knowing.

Realize then that desire is the great power of creativity. It takes a very powerful mind to create a drama in which you seem to be small and powerless. In this way, you can see your "failure" as a great "success" with a small shift in your perception.

All "miracles" exist. You will see the one's you desire to see. That is why you ask "believing you have already received it" because you have already received everything! You have been given everything already of the Father, Who gives all to all.

Quantum physics bears "witness" to this. Out of all possibilities, you will see what you perceive. It is the "observer" who changes waves of light to particles of light. Your perception is driven by what you desire. Minds desiring to play together will seem to "see" the same things. Yet each will see a bit differently, according to each's desire. But who are "you"? ALL choices bear upon this one question. You will "see" who you want to see.

You become confused because you identify with a very small, limited body-mind package. Thus, you become confused because you do not identify with the unlimitedness of your whole mind...the one that creates the "stages" upon which you "play"...the one perceiving a universe external to "you".

"You" are not a body. A body is an effect of a desire, shaped by thought, correlating to a pattern adapted to a world by a consensus of minds. Many minds desiring to pretend they are separate from God make up the world you experience. Fear is invented, creating the "gravity" that binds bodies together. Beliefs shape and perpetuate experiences within the body...death, for example. What you think is "energy" is actually thought. Death is but a change of energy...a change of mind. I have shown you how to choose again.

The highest state of awareness, then, in which perception has been totally cleansed and purified is one of paradox as soon as you seek to talk about it. For you will look upon yourself and see yourself as a body-mind, with a certain name, living in a certain place on a certain planet, doing a certain thing. In the very same moment, in the very same field of your mind, you will know that you are not that body, that you are not that name, that you are not that history - that you are something more. You are something grand, you are something divine, you are something mysterious, you are something beyond comprehension by any mind, at least in the realm of thought.

And you will literally know and feel within the core of your being the truth of both of those. And there will no longer be opposition between them. You will no longer look at the personality and see a great schism between it and the nature of Christ Mind - for the two will have become merged as one.

Peace,

Jesus

This is your brain on drugs.

 

[Aurum]

Quote from I am...:

...
True forgiveness, means you "overlook" the "guilt", to "see past" the illusion...to see the innocence beyond. You see there is literally NO GUILT. You do not have to wait to forgive. You can forgive immediately - or better yet - before anything seems to "happen". It is then a state of mind. In this state of mind, all events are neutral. They have no meaning but the meaning you give them. When you see there is nothing to "forgive", then you have truly forgiven the whole world for everything.
...

Funny - Jesus Christ, God in flesh, quoted in the Bible, said "Your sins are forgiven - go and sin no more." That certainly wasn't a state of his mind - or of the various people he spoke that to.

Your diatribe about being part of the Christ mind/consciousness/whatever might be your belief, but don't attempt to pass it off as being a "variation" of Christianity. It's not.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from Artie21:

This is your brain on drugs.

Where is the brain?

 

[2cents]

in a random cranium...

 

[2cents]

Quote from jem:

You are now writing as if the Landscape theory is a proven theory. If it were then I agree no design inference.

But you are ignore the other side of the coin, --- what if there is only one universe (no landscape).

Susskind tells us then science would be hard pressed to explain the fine tunings of the universe.

You keep ignoring that point. Ye man of faith.

wow, thats all u got in the end???

and if its clearly established that we live in a megaverse, ie an eternally budding or even an eternally inflating/deflating bubbly- foamy-type universe where we'd only been inhabiting one of those bubbles whose conditions accomodate life-as-we-know-it for long enough for us to observe it...

wld that stop you from desperately longing for the existence of a creator? like, yeah but, there is only OoooNE megaverse, and it was DESIiiiiGNED!

i don't think so

 

[I am...]

Quote from Aurum:

Funny - Jesus Christ, God in flesh, quoted in the Bible, said "Your sins are forgiven - go and sin no more." That certainly wasn't a state of his mind - or of the various people he spoke that to.

Your diatribe about being part of the Christ mind/consciousness/whatever might be your belief, but don't attempt to pass it off as being a "variation" of Christianity. It's not.

You know what was the state of my mind when I spoke those words?

Forgiveness recognizes what you thought your brother did to you has not occurred. It does not pardon sins and make them real. It sees there was no sin. And in that view are all your sins forgiven. What is sin, except a false idea about God's Son - about yourself? Forgiveness merely sees its falsity, and therefore lets it go. What then is free to take its place is now the Will of God.

An unforgiving thought is one which makes a judgement that it will not raise to doubt, although it is not true. The mind is closed, and will not be released. The thought protects projection, tightening its chains, so that distortions are more veiled and more obscure; less easily accessible to doubt, and further kept from reason. What can come between a fixed projection and the aim that it has chosen as its wanted goal?

An unforgiving thought does many things. In frantic action it pursues its goal, twisting and overturning what it see as interfering with its chosen path. Distortion is its purpose, and the means by which it would accomplish it as well. It sets about its furious attempts to smash reality, without concern for anything that would appear to pose a contradiction to its point of view.

Forgiveness, on the other hand, is still, and quietly does nothing. It offends no aspect of reality, nor seeks to twist it to appearances it likes. It merely looks, and waits, and judges not. He who would not forgive must judge, for he must justify his failure to forgive. But he who would forgive himself must learn to welcome truth exactly as it is.

Sin is insanity. It is the means by which the mind is driven mad, and seeks to let illusions take the place of truth. And being mad, it sees illusions where the truth should be, and where it really is.

Sin is the home of all illusions, which but stand for things imagined, issuing from thoughts that are untrue. They are the "proof" that what has no reality is real. Sin "proves" God's Son is evil.

How long, Aurum, will you maintain the game of sin? Shall we not put away these sharp-edged children's toys? How soon will you be ready to come home? Perhaps today? There is no sin. Creation is unchanged. Would you still hold return to Heaven back? How long?

As it pertains to this thread, forgiveness overrides space and time. Thus, it is the basis of miracles.

Which is easier to say, "Your sins are forgiven you", or, "Rise up and walk"?

As an example, you can see how time was extended, and bandwidth filled, as this thread was filled with "unforgiving thoughts" (see above). Forgiveness collapses time, which is also directly relative to space.

Aurum, you are forgiven for your thinking this is a "variation" of my original message.

Jesus