Intelligent design and extinctions

[acronym]

Quote from Hansel H:


If there is God, God needn't be some cartoon character in the sky; the Universe itself may be God. God may be something related to our own mindstuff that is present throughout the Universe like salt is in the sea, etc., etc, etc...

There may be ways to use probablity in the God debate but I don't see how, given that the pro-God odds can't be assessed.

Remarkably, you never hear to many god botherers discuss the high likelihood, that the god referred to in scripture, may in fact, very well be, a subatomic atom.

Dna, possibly, maybe a quark, not perhaps a bearded male figure in the sky or somewhere.
Scripture is clear on it, yet, nobody got it.

"God is everywhere", ever hear that one? Its in all of us........everywhere.......how can this be, if the very concept itself is NOT this phenomena, known to many now, and many drug taking, tripping pretend holy men from so many times past.

 

[I am...]

Quote from acronym:

Remarkably, you never hear to many god botherers discuss the high likelihood, that the god referred to in scripture, may in fact, very well be, a subatomic atom.

Dna, possibly, maybe a quark, not perhaps a bearded male figure in the sky or somewhere.
Scripture is clear on it, yet, nobody got it.

"God is everywhere", ever hear that one? Its in all of us........everywhere.......how can this be, if the very concept itself is NOT this phenomena, known to many now, and many drug taking, tripping pretend holy men from so many times past.

It's a mask. God is everywhere. But the mask is also everywhere. The atom is a mask. The bearded figure is also a mask. Personalities are masks. Thoughts are also masks. This universe is a mask. Beyond all this is the unmasked.

Jesus

 

[armoured saint]

Quote from traderNik:

The existence of 'the Supreme Being' is assumed, and then you are denigrated for not understanding how the Supreme Being would operate.

LOL sums Zzz's irrational position perfectly.

We cannot know anything about it but then she proceeds to describe some of its properties

 

[acronym]

Quote from I am...:

It's a mask. God is everywhere. But the mask is also everywhere. The atom is a mask. The bearded figure is also a mask. Personalities are masks. Thoughts are also masks. This universe is a mask. Beyond all this is the unmasked.

Jesus

Golly, thanks.

It really was a question to the bible thumpers though, it's always been my interpretation of these books, that they were, inherently, describing the drugged out visions of various authors, and at the same time, a clear vision of the "true" makeup of the universe, in an extraordinarily badly put way.

How sad it is, that people beholden to these precepts, can't appreciate the wonder of quantum physics, basic chemistry, nor the marvel of archeological discovery, for what they are, journeys to learning, evidence that man was given a brain for a reason, yet they would sooner deride and destroy them, if only they had the power.

And you know they would, that's the really sad part.

 

[Hansel H]

Quote from acronym:

Remarkably, you never hear to many god botherers discuss the high likelihood, that the god referred to in scripture, may in fact, very well be, a subatomic atom.

Dna, possibly, maybe a quark, not perhaps a bearded male figure in the sky or somewhere.
Scripture is clear on it, yet, nobody got it.

"God is everywhere", ever hear that one? Its in all of us........everywhere.......how can this be, if the very concept itself is NOT this phenomena, known to many now, and many drug taking, tripping pretend holy men from so many times past.

Thirty years ago some Soviet scientists were considering the possibility that every atom is a universe as complete as our own. In any of these atom-universes our Universe would appear as just another atom. Paradoxical, of course, but when you think of the 'size' of the Universe it's all measured in self-referencing terms; we have no access to any context for the Universe that might tell us whether the Universe is big, small, infinite, infinitesimal, whatever.

 

[I am...]

Quote from Hansel H:

Thirty years ago some Soviet scientists were considering the possibility that every atom is a universe as complete as our own. In any of these atom-universes our Universe would appear as just another atom. Paradoxical, of course, but when you think of the 'size' of the Universe it's all measured in self-referencing terms; we have no access to any context for the Universe that might tell us whether the Universe is big, small, infinite, infinitesimal, whatever.

Exactly.

Something else to consider...

That this particular type of universe is a 'private' universe, made by 'you' upon a system of thought, untrue at it's foundation, as a personal fantasy world. Consider that there is nobody out there, and you are alone. What appears to be out there is projected from your own mind. What appears to be alive are like wind-up toys. The universe itself is like a wind-up toy. Consider that you yourself are one of the wind-up toys, and 'you' are not here. And whatever else seems to be 'out there' is also 'you' not there.

It would be akin to a Being with the power of God under self-induced hypnosis.

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from acronym:

Golly, thanks.

It really was a question to the bible thumpers though, it's always been my interpretation of these books, that they were, inherently, describing the drugged out visions of various authors, and at the same time, a clear vision of the "true" makeup of the universe, in an extraordinarily badly put way.

How sad it is, that people beholden to these precepts, can't appreciate the wonder of quantum physics, basic chemistry, nor the marvel of archeological discovery, for what they are, journeys to learning, evidence that man was given a brain for a reason, yet they would sooner deride and destroy them, if only they had the power.

And you know they would, that's the really sad part.

Genesis may well be a poor telling of a story about how...

100,000 years ago, beings from an advanced planet visited earth to begin a test in which they introduced two new layers of DNA into one of twenty evolving species of 'man'...inducing a giant leap in consciousness so profound as to constitute a kind of 'creation'. This species begins to think in terms of 'good and evil', 'right vs wrong'...etc. Consider it a test, 144,000 years in length, to make man into the image of the beings from the visiting planet.

Consider that 40,000 years ago the average water temperature on the planet was eight degrees cooler, and while most of it was locked in ice, the sea levels were 400 feet lower, rising to where they are now over 25,000 years, shifting civilizations around, causing them to become seafaring boatbuilders. Consider a cataclysm that puts so much dust in the air, it increases rainwater to form more lakes on the continents. And all this could be 'remembered' in folklore as a kind of flood.

None of this really changes the basics, that this world is a product of imagination in the mind of a maker which is outside of time and space. And in such a world, anything goes as long as it's fiction that makes the truth look strange.

Jesus

 

[yip1997]

Quote from smilingsynic:

If there is some intelligent designer, then why have there been several mass extinctions in which 75% or more (in some cases, much more) of all species have gone extinct?

The most famous mass extinction of all took place 65 million years ago when a celestial object crashed right off the Yucatan, wiping out the dinosaurs and most life; but an even bigger mass extinction took place 250 million years ago, the so-called Permian extinction, which eliminated 90 plus percent of all species.

If there truly is an intelligent designer, how can these mass extinctions (and others) be explained? They make little sense. Why would an intelligent designer have to destroy life and start over again, many times. Wasn't the designer happy with the dinosaurs? What about that fascinating life fossilized up in the Canadian Rockies, in the Burgess Shale?

Any explanations?

I am trying to offer an explanation (not a proof) here.

Design is a process and it might be an iterative process. A mass extinction might be part of the process to create a better product (in this case a better creature).

Consider software design. Sometimes you need to delete most of the old codes (or start fresh) in order to make a better software product.

 

[armoured saint]

Quote from yip1997:

I am trying to offer an explanation (not a proof) here.

Design is a process and it might be an iterative process. A mass extinction might be part of the process to create a better product (in this case a better creature).

Consider software design. Sometimes you need to delete most of the old codes (or start fresh) in order to make a better software product.

better? 'better' is for mortals.

why all the drama? why the convoluted process of extinction? and why extinguish perfection in first place? (an omnipotent being is never imperfect)

to make smthg, and then subsequently destroy it is to admit error

C'mon man, your average omnipotent being would simply wave her hand.. and all would be gone

don't be rational in all things but this..don't let "jesus" make a fool out you

 

[Hansel H]

Quote from I am...:

Jesus: That this particular type of universe is a 'private' universe, made by 'you' upon a system of thought, untrue at it's foundation, as a personal fantasy world.

Hans: I assume from the placing of 'private' in quotation marks you're dealing with the contradiction of a universe as shared experience and private experience. It doesn't follow that because we experience the world through our limited and distorting sensory system and form maps of the world based on these experiences that our system of thought is untrue at its foundation. If there's consistency in our mental maps and correspondence between those mental maps and the world our system of thought is valid - at least in a practical sense. It isn't a fantasy world; if it were there would be no technology; technology depends on a correspondence between our mental maps of the world and the world.

If you feel that we're living in a fantasy perhaps you could be more specific about the character of the truth we're not relating to.
____

Jesus: Consider that there is nobody out there, and you are alone. What appears to be out there is projected from your own mind.

Hans: This sounds like classic solipsism. It's a tough nut to crack because though any objection to the "Whatever you say is just me talking to myself." argument may be obviously correct to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. parties, said objection can be dismissed by the solpisist as just another solipsistic event.

Also, it's true in a sense - namely in that each of us lives in a unique island reality - but IMO the trick is to keep in mind the probability that that island reality is an interpretation of a basic reality whose existence is not observer-dependent.

I'm pretty sure that you believe that there is a truth beyond what we can know by way of our sense-based minds but I have no idea how you think that knowing of ultimate truth might be achieved.
________

Jesus: What appears to be alive are like wind-up toys. The universe itself is like a wind-up toy.

Hans: This is determinism. You either believe in it or you don't. There's no way to prove or disprove it; it's just a matter of preference. I think that we have free will and reject the notion that the Universe is completely deterministic. I can't prove this though. It's just a belief based on my own experience.
_____

Jesus: Consider that you yourself are one of the wind-up toys, and 'you' are not here. And whatever else seems to be 'out there' is also 'you' not there.

Hans: Here I believe you are saying the self is an illusion. This is an idea very popular with modern thinkers. It's a very dangerous idea that I don't accept.
______

Jesus: It would be akin to a Being with the power of God under self-induced hypnosis.

Jesus