You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Innerworth.com
- Thread starter alain
- Start date
I think we approached Allen and Bo via RealityTrader.com, (we also interviewed Vadym Graifer). I didn't know you posted here too, Brandon. Never sure how private people are... so unless they post here, I wont fess. But I know of one other for sure besides Harris, Dustin and Brandon that we contacted via Elite Trader. And I heard he might be back posting here again!
triple_j: You do know the End result for Jesse Livermore don't you? No? Well, he blew his brains out in a New York City hotel room.
::sighs:: Yes, of course. Acerbic wit, however, doesn't lend much to the discussion, now does it? Care to comment on aspects of Livermore (that we see in the book) that might contribute to such an ignominious ending? Balance, after all... is the key.
Remember, interviews with traders or a book like Reminiscences of a Stock Operator aren't good for simply getting a better handle on what you liked that they said. They are also good for recognizing "red flags" in another's trading approach.
::sighs:: Yes, of course. Acerbic wit, however, doesn't lend much to the discussion, now does it? Care to comment on aspects of Livermore (that we see in the book) that might contribute to such an ignominious ending? Balance, after all... is the key.
Remember, interviews with traders or a book like Reminiscences of a Stock Operator aren't good for simply getting a better handle on what you liked that they said. They are also good for recognizing "red flags" in another's trading approach.
I've been meaning to comment on the two posts by aca123 and Amadeus Mozart since I made my way back here on the 19th. Amadeus is a regular, and I think has some valid points... about what people want. People really want a method, first.
It is hard to focus on something more esoteric, like your own psychological make-up, if you don't feel you have an angle to trade from. Well, our site was never designed for a raw beginner. There's some assumption that you have an observation or a angle you feel you can exploit. If you don't have that inspiration, I don't think any system or method is going to help you over the long run.
It's interesting, however, to hear discipline being called the "soft stuff". Lack of it is a major human foible, and keeps people from excelling or improving their station in life. We are a nation of scapegoats, however. Big tobacco lied to me. It's not my fault I have an unhealthy view of my body, Madison Avenue only portrays skinny people in ads. It goes on and on.
Eat less and exercise. It's pretty simple isn't it? Controlling one's impulse to a second helping, or simply slowing down so your stomach can send the signal to your brain that ::gasp:: you're full! But it's quite hard for most people to do something that simple. Discipline that instills habit, not a new diet, is the real solution.
All that said, when I came to work for Innerworth a year ago, I felt I wasn't a raw beginner. I had some experience making my own calls in my IRA. I was ahead of the game, had more winners than losers and some pretty big winners to boot.
Any sense that I knew what I was doing was stripped pretty completely as I looked deeper to flesh out my angle. I did indeed want more method help. I agree that what we're missing, is helping folks develop both their method and discipline at the same time.
aca123: "minds inner workings" are secondary... Without method, analytics, knowledge of the market and risk, psychology is not going to do the job...
I wholeheartedly disagree, of course. No one ever said that you don't need a method. You need both. And I'd agree that it's important to develop them side by side as you begin. However, top traders are pretty unanimous in stating that once they've figured it out, 90% of it is psychological. And they simplify their method.
aca123 again: It is the method (entry, exit, money management), which gives you the confidence and allows for discipline. Maybe Innerworth is asking "unbiased questions" about traders mindset but unfortunately, provides no clues to where or how to look for answers.
Brandon responded to that pretty well. I'll admit there is a -Chicken or the egg?- aspect to this. What sets up which element in a trade? I do feel that Innerworth gives you plenty of clues of where to look, it's just not in the method.
However, as Amadeus said, we are offering more than psychology now... the market has spoken. We have a Trading Methods newsletter and we are further developing our methods section and an Investor's Journal geared towards the beginner.
It won't change the approach we have however... and that is, we don't sell any method as the sure fire way to make money. Your individual psychology comes first, and any system or method must fit with your personality.
The focus will always be on the mental side of trading. Because while your system might tell you to sell, no system can counter-act the personality that might hope for a turn around or extend the profit... if you haven't explored your own psyche.
It is hard to focus on something more esoteric, like your own psychological make-up, if you don't feel you have an angle to trade from. Well, our site was never designed for a raw beginner. There's some assumption that you have an observation or a angle you feel you can exploit. If you don't have that inspiration, I don't think any system or method is going to help you over the long run.
It's interesting, however, to hear discipline being called the "soft stuff". Lack of it is a major human foible, and keeps people from excelling or improving their station in life. We are a nation of scapegoats, however. Big tobacco lied to me. It's not my fault I have an unhealthy view of my body, Madison Avenue only portrays skinny people in ads. It goes on and on.
Eat less and exercise. It's pretty simple isn't it? Controlling one's impulse to a second helping, or simply slowing down so your stomach can send the signal to your brain that ::gasp:: you're full! But it's quite hard for most people to do something that simple. Discipline that instills habit, not a new diet, is the real solution.
All that said, when I came to work for Innerworth a year ago, I felt I wasn't a raw beginner. I had some experience making my own calls in my IRA. I was ahead of the game, had more winners than losers and some pretty big winners to boot.
Any sense that I knew what I was doing was stripped pretty completely as I looked deeper to flesh out my angle. I did indeed want more method help. I agree that what we're missing, is helping folks develop both their method and discipline at the same time.
aca123: "minds inner workings" are secondary... Without method, analytics, knowledge of the market and risk, psychology is not going to do the job...
I wholeheartedly disagree, of course. No one ever said that you don't need a method. You need both. And I'd agree that it's important to develop them side by side as you begin. However, top traders are pretty unanimous in stating that once they've figured it out, 90% of it is psychological. And they simplify their method.
aca123 again: It is the method (entry, exit, money management), which gives you the confidence and allows for discipline. Maybe Innerworth is asking "unbiased questions" about traders mindset but unfortunately, provides no clues to where or how to look for answers.
Brandon responded to that pretty well. I'll admit there is a -Chicken or the egg?- aspect to this. What sets up which element in a trade? I do feel that Innerworth gives you plenty of clues of where to look, it's just not in the method.
However, as Amadeus said, we are offering more than psychology now... the market has spoken. We have a Trading Methods newsletter and we are further developing our methods section and an Investor's Journal geared towards the beginner.
It won't change the approach we have however... and that is, we don't sell any method as the sure fire way to make money. Your individual psychology comes first, and any system or method must fit with your personality.
The focus will always be on the mental side of trading. Because while your system might tell you to sell, no system can counter-act the personality that might hope for a turn around or extend the profit... if you haven't explored your own psyche.
Good god, don't make me laugh. I was a subscriber until that interview.
-I'm all ears to hear any criticism of my interview (first or second).
_________________________________________________
On the Livermore front, he didn't start loosing his money (and ultimately his life) until he lost his sanity. If you read the other books on his life, you'll notice that it was his divorce from his second wife that really did wreck him emotionally. His wife shooting his son probably didn't help his emotional state positively either. Finally, he was a lifetime boozer. I think that seriously hurt his ability to concentrate at times. It was when he lost his cool that he started to trade poorly, it wasn't his bad trading that made him loose his mind. The psychological aspects are way more important than the methodology.
-I'm all ears to hear any criticism of my interview (first or second).
_________________________________________________
On the Livermore front, he didn't start loosing his money (and ultimately his life) until he lost his sanity. If you read the other books on his life, you'll notice that it was his divorce from his second wife that really did wreck him emotionally. His wife shooting his son probably didn't help his emotional state positively either. Finally, he was a lifetime boozer. I think that seriously hurt his ability to concentrate at times. It was when he lost his cool that he started to trade poorly, it wasn't his bad trading that made him loose his mind. The psychological aspects are way more important than the methodology.
The psychological aspects are way more important than the methodology.
Very good point. The psychological aspects are more of an influence when you're trading your own money and making a living from that trading.
Are you doing either??? Your money is defined as money that IS NOT provided by Daddy or any other source other than yourself, and making a living is living from your trading gains and not an allowance from said Daddy.
Very good point. The psychological aspects are more of an influence when you're trading your own money and making a living from that trading.
Are you doing either??? Your money is defined as money that IS NOT provided by Daddy or any other source other than yourself, and making a living is living from your trading gains and not an allowance from said Daddy.