The action seems smoother to me
Then only downside is reduced liquidity but if you trade ES, a 100 lot is still usually liquid in ah
Index Futures in the Off-Hours
- Thread starter Jdesey
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The action seems smoother to me
Then only downside is reduced liquidity but if you trade ES, a 100 lot is still usually liquid in ah
I also looked into it, but it does not fit my style, tbh. I trade short term and rely on liquidity to get my fills.
The biggest advantage is the lack of algo action, especially those anoying ETF - Arb bots that flip bid/offer a million times without trading anything. The correlation bots are still there though.
The problem, however, is the fact that nobody trades. So while you are free to hit bids/take offers with 50-100 cars, nobody is taking your market.
It's like 200 cars are on the bid, offer is 150 cars, 5 contracts hit the bid and it immediately goes offer...sits there for a couple of seconds and blips back up again, whereas during RTH there is always this small mini puke into the next bid/offer where you can get in or out. So for short term trading your only edge would be correlation where you take the market when the ES is lagging...good luck against the robots though
Until you trade medium term, e.g. intraday swings, you will have a very hard time to manage your risk. There's just nothing to lean on or to get out on a backtick.
Also, when a move happens, it's most likely a low liquidity blip in correlation with the Asian/EU markets.
So AH looks pretty on a chart, but the market is a mess in reality. The chart posted above suggests that most moves happen overnight, but misses the fact that most data was recorded during times when the EU was on the verge of a breakdown with the mess in Greece, Italy and
Spain. So of course there was a lot of action in the EU session...which translated to AH volatility in the ES.
If you really want to enjoy a sleep deprived live without friends, I'd suggest you trade the EUREX contracts, primarily FESX. Truckton of liquidity, cheap exchange fees, not as hard to read as the ES and good correlation with FDAX, FSMI and 6E.
Just do yourself a favour and stay away from FDAX and FDXM...those contracts are a nightmare from a risk perspective and kill accounts pretty quickly if you make a tiny mistake.
Besides that, I'd suggest to stay on your home turf and keep normal hours. The US has a gazillion products and there's something for every taste and background. If the hours collide with your schedule, trade KOSPI or the Mini Nikkei, which should be active during Cali evening hours.
The biggest advantage is the lack of algo action, especially those anoying ETF - Arb bots that flip bid/offer a million times without trading anything. The correlation bots are still there though.
The problem, however, is the fact that nobody trades. So while you are free to hit bids/take offers with 50-100 cars, nobody is taking your market.
It's like 200 cars are on the bid, offer is 150 cars, 5 contracts hit the bid and it immediately goes offer...sits there for a couple of seconds and blips back up again, whereas during RTH there is always this small mini puke into the next bid/offer where you can get in or out. So for short term trading your only edge would be correlation where you take the market when the ES is lagging...good luck against the robots though
Until you trade medium term, e.g. intraday swings, you will have a very hard time to manage your risk. There's just nothing to lean on or to get out on a backtick.
Also, when a move happens, it's most likely a low liquidity blip in correlation with the Asian/EU markets.
So AH looks pretty on a chart, but the market is a mess in reality. The chart posted above suggests that most moves happen overnight, but misses the fact that most data was recorded during times when the EU was on the verge of a breakdown with the mess in Greece, Italy and
Spain. So of course there was a lot of action in the EU session...which translated to AH volatility in the ES.
If you really want to enjoy a sleep deprived live without friends, I'd suggest you trade the EUREX contracts, primarily FESX. Truckton of liquidity, cheap exchange fees, not as hard to read as the ES and good correlation with FDAX, FSMI and 6E.
Just do yourself a favour and stay away from FDAX and FDXM...those contracts are a nightmare from a risk perspective and kill accounts pretty quickly if you make a tiny mistake.
Besides that, I'd suggest to stay on your home turf and keep normal hours. The US has a gazillion products and there's something for every taste and background. If the hours collide with your schedule, trade KOSPI or the Mini Nikkei, which should be active during Cali evening hours.
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I'm in the off-hours a lot.
I spent my first two of live years (5 months sim before) sleeping lightly and I achieved round the clock, 5 days a week trading. Good snooze on Saturday/Sunday. Scalping and swing in parallel with segregated accounts. Many of my best intraday swing setup were Asian and Euro sessions I'm on Chicago time. Tough at the beginning but like marathon training (having twins?), your stamina plateaus and lifts, plateaus and lifts again. I have a girlfriend who understood I'm married to my trading 5 days, and I kept my own apartment during that phase.
I trade all the major sectors, 5-10 (rarely 20) lots per instrument (4-8) at a time in parallel and avoiding excessively correlated trades is much of my risk management. PA/Technical backed entries for the most part.
Lots of money is worth & requires being serious like a pro athlete has to be. Sometimes I ponder why American friends are so quick to try and kick up their heels before they really get into the proverbial gold seam motherload. It seems they are starving for rest. I've lived in Europe, plenty of paid holidays etc. so work is an old companion, not a monster devouring my happiness & health perhaps?
I'm in the off-hours a lot.
I spent my first two of live years (5 months sim before) sleeping lightly and I achieved round the clock, 5 days a week trading. Good snooze on Saturday/Sunday. Scalping and swing in parallel with segregated accounts. Many of my best intraday swing setup were Asian and Euro sessions I'm on Chicago time. Tough at the beginning but like marathon training (having twins?), your stamina plateaus and lifts, plateaus and lifts again. I have a girlfriend who understood I'm married to my trading 5 days, and I kept my own apartment during that phase.
I trade all the major sectors, 5-10 (rarely 20) lots per instrument (4-8) at a time in parallel and avoiding excessively correlated trades is much of my risk management. PA/Technical backed entries for the most part.
Lots of money is worth & requires being serious like a pro athlete has to be. Sometimes I ponder why American friends are so quick to try and kick up their heels before they really get into the proverbial gold seam motherload. It seems they are starving for rest. I've lived in Europe, plenty of paid holidays etc. so work is an old companion, not a monster devouring my happiness & health perhaps?
I asume you trade the "overnight" session in the respective markets. I think this thread is more about trading the US markets AH, whereas I guess you actually trade the active markets in their repective timezone?
I do trade discretionary US markets mostly, CL at Asian open ~2am is great, silver, gold etc. 60%+ of the range often happens between 10pm and 6am (CT). I tried DAX etc for a bit but moved to South America and reverted to mostly US only. This was largely down to mental bandwidth and really understanding a bunch of Futures, at least until I was "blonde, brunette, redhead" with their P/A feel.
Being near the equator days are like clockwork and there is no DST so it is six months aligned to Chicago & six on NY. I must say the very regular day length (longest/shortest day differential is 20 minutes) makes it easier for me.
I see. Gold and Silver is actually really good to trade in the asian session untill 2hrs into London session. I think it makes sense to have a TA - approach to do this and use the correlation/flow fallout from active markets.
Scalping the US markets with the DOM overnight doesn't make much sense, at least not for me.
But good insight and nice ideas
Scalping the US markets with the DOM overnight doesn't make much sense, at least not for me.
But good insight and nice ideas
Cheers, I do pretty well but I'm more of a day bird lately as I have the equity built now. I still do 14-15 hours weekdays (ideally) though I have some other off-screen investments to tend now. Crude has it's nights but everything does when the fundamentals are shifting. Cl is very technical until news and reports of course. A lot of markets get frisky at Asian open for medium length scalps. 6j is always good.
I'm not a DOM scalper though, I scalp from chart using some L2 indication, breakouts, reversions, nothing obscure, just do it well. 1-5 ticks or more targets, 2-6 cars, fills are fine.
With the proverbial 10k hours crammed into such a short time, trading is like breathing, subconscious and calm. I watch a lot of movies and play music. Its all good.
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