Income Tax is Unconstitutional

Quote from ProfLogic:

A flat tax would be a wonderful thing. No loop holes and everyone including corporations pay their fair share. I had a long discussion with Steve Forbes recently and his ideas along those lines are gaining solid bipartisan consideration. We can only hope it comes to fruition in our lifetime.

Your 30% figure is way off base though because those individuals that make over $400K pay far less than that. Proportionately the middle class pays the greatest percentage of their intake to taxes which isn't fair.
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Agreed. Most of us dont mind paying taxes. Its the double penetration action...wait let me re-phrase that. The gang banging we take in dozens of levels of taxation that is a travesty. Why not implement a 25% flat rate instead of income tax? Because then politicians couldn't keep spending like drunk sailors (no offense meant to my dept of the Navy buds :-) )
And not hide under layers instead of full transparency.
 
Quote from futures_shark:

They designed the constitution to be amendable but I can't believe they had the foresight to believe it would turn into what it has today.

You can believe what you want but I don't believe they would have approved of an income tax.

The People can only amend the constitution? That is a ridiculous statement. The people only have the power to vote for dumb or dumber every so many years. While the idiots are in office they have complete power to do as they please. Oh yeah, there are checks and balances...they're working great now-a-days aren't they.

If you believe that last paragraph you wrote then I assume you must trust politicians also. That is truly a sad state but at least you are not alone.
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The Founding Fathers explicitly granted the Congress the power to levy and collect taxes:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States"

That is the first sentence in the enumeration of the Congressional powers.

If you think that Democracy is broken here, either do something about it or move to France. Oh, you are too poor to afford the plane ticket.

America, Love it or Leave it.
 
Quote from Artie21:

The Founding Fathers explicitly granted the Congress the power to levy and collect taxes:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States"

That is the first sentence in the enumeration of the Congressional powers.

If you think that Democracy is broken here, either do something about it or move to France. Oh, you are too poor to afford the plane ticket.

America, Love it or Leave it.
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If that gives congress the right to collect INCOME taxes then why did they have to create the 16th amendment? My comments are directed specifically towards income taxes.

I definitely believe that the political system in this country is badly broken and I AM trying to do something about it...I'm trying to open your eyes by making these comments.

Great quote from the movie, "The Patriot" --
Why should I agree to trade one tyrant three thousand miles away for three thousand tyrants one mile away?
--Benjamin Martin ( Mel Gibson)
 
Quote from futures_shark:

If that gives congress the right to collect INCOME taxes then why did they have to create the 16th amendment? My comments are directed specifically towards income taxes.
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16th Amendment was designed to clarify and specify a particular power of taxation:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

It is irrelevant what the founding fathers may have thought about income taxes in 1789.

That you have to quote hollywood to express your philosophy illustrates your juvenile mental status. Henceforth, piss off.
 
Quote from Artie21:



all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States"
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Yah right. The tax burden is uniformly distributed across classes....

The current tax system rewards success and failure. And punishes mediocrity. That is not a democracy.

A flat tax rate with no double, triple...quadruple taxation or more is fair for everyone. Regardless of income.
 
Quote from indahook:

Yah right. The tax burden is uniformly distributed across classes....

The current tax system rewards success and failure. And punishes mediocrity. That is not a democracy.

A flat tax rate with no double, triple...quadruple taxation or more is fair for everyone. Regardless of income.
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How about higher capital gains taxes, for everyone?
 
Quote from Artie21:

16th Amendment was designed to clarify and specify a particular power of taxation:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

It is irrelevant what the founding fathers may have thought about income taxes in 1789.

That you have to quote hollywood to express your philosophy illustrates your juvenile mental status. Henceforth, piss off.
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Actually none of us KNOW what the founding fathers were thinking when they wrote any of this so it's pointless to argue on that point.

But you are wrong to say that the 16th amendment clarified an already existing power. If you mean INCREASED an existing power I could agree with that.

The income tax was instituted to pay for WWI. Why? Because during war time was the only possibility of passing something so totally undesirable to the citizens. It was instituted as 1% of incomes over $3000. according to one website that I found, $3000 would be $61031 today based on purchasing power. And 1% is now 10-35% for federal income taxes plus social security and Medicare and state taxes if you don't live in Florida, Texas, or Nevada.

The politicians did it again recently right after 9/11 with the patriot act. They voted on INCREASING their own political power over the citizens of this country. That's what politicians do; they continually look for ways that they can increase their own power and in so doing they decrease everyone else's fredom
 
Quote from futures_shark:

yeah 30% is WAY LOW. This spreadsheet contains calculations for MD & NYC.

it's more like 40%
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A Flat Tax that would start at $40,000 for a family of 4. Below that would be tax free. Above that, including corporations, would be a flat 17% tax rate. The country would be completly out of debt in 5 years and would rebating each year after that. I'm in.
 
Quote from ProfLogic:

A Flat Tax that would start at $40,000 for a family of 4. Below that would be tax free. Above that, including corporations, would be a flat 17% tax rate. The country would be completly out of debt in 5 years and would rebating each year after that. I'm in.
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That sounds great, and I would definitely favor a flat tax over what exists now. But the problem is the politicians. Under any tax plan there is NO CHANCE of rebates and the country getting out of debt. For that to happen the politicians would have to spend less than the tax revenue brings in.

Spending is the issue thats needs addressing more than how taxes are confiscated.
 
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