Income Before: $18,000. After: $85,000.

tsznecki · Mar 15, 2019

@nooby_mcnoob Yeah I hear what you are saying, but not everyone wants to do all the other activities that come with making a product/service.

Some just want to clock in and out. Given that time is the most valuable asset, who can blame them?

nooby_mcnoob · Mar 15, 2019

ironchef said:
Because he is not happy he only made $500K a year.

This is part of it. He left the room in anger when he found out how much I made lol.

nooby_mcnoob · Mar 15, 2019

tsznecki said:
@nooby_mcnoob Yeah I hear what you are saying, but not everyone wants to do all the other activities that come with making a product/service.

Some just want to clock in and out. Given that time is the most valuable asset, who can blame them?

Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes, I agree. Do what you want to do in life. That being said, I work off the assumption that I will need to hire a hot "nurse" to keep me company in my old age. Can't do that without money.

JSOP · Mar 15, 2019

nooby_mcnoob said:
He realized he didn't enjoy his particular specialty. But I think now that he has a good girlfriend, he's made more peace with it.

Ah it's always the woman...

Glad your brother is enjoying his profession now. Kudos to his gf. She saved a doctor.

nooby_mcnoob · Mar 16, 2019

ironchef said:
$150/hr is not peanuts, better than day trading.

If you value your time, it's not about how much you're getting paid, but about how little you are in control of your time. I refuse to bill hourly.

JSOP said:
Ah it's always the woman... Glad your brother is enjoying his profession now. Kudos to his gf. She saved a doctor.

I don't know if he's enjoying his profession as much as he has been able to find something other than career/money to focus on.

ET180 · Mar 16, 2019

nooby_mcnoob said:
If you're already an old person like me, then I would suggest you still do the same thing but realize it's much more difficult with a family. Once I had kids, it was extremely difficult to do new projects unless I took months off paid work.

I think that's how people get "stuck". I graduated with a degree in electrical engineering and worked for a large tech company doing that type of work. I soon realized that I was much more interested in software engineering and my job allowed me to shift into that area. But I still had to take a few classes and spend some time learning the new skillset. That took time. If I had a kid or kids at that point in my life, it would have been more difficult to make the change. That's why I think people should only have kids once they are "settled" in their career and perhaps life in general. Otherwise, they make change much more difficult.

It's not fun unless you enjoyed math/logic type classes. You have to be wired for it to do well.

I'm a software engineer, my brother became a doctor. He lived with me for a few years while in medical school to save money. I can tell you that it's a hell of a lot harder to become a doctor than a software engineer. Doctors make more (at least many specialties), but I can't get fired and forced to leave my career over one bad day at work (malpractice) even though it's possible that a Boeing software engineer might be unintentionally responsible for more deaths than most doctors. Then there's the debt, additional schooling, and years in residency...basically they start their careers in their mid 30s. I agree with you that it takes a specific interest to do either.

qlai · Mar 16, 2019

ironchef said:
anyone can day trade but you need some skills to code

Strongly disagree. Cannot take a an online class for that and be consistently profitable in a few months.

ironchef said:
I am taking an online class on VBA Excel maybe I will go back and get a day job after I pass my tests.

Obviously without knowing your situation I cannot know what is best for you, but I agree with what @nooby_mcnoob is saying. The industry had changed a lot from when I started. If you like coding, getting "a day job" may be the worst thing to do. You may end up with 10% coding and 90% soul sucking BS. By the time you realize this, you may be too deep in. Some industries are easy to get in, but hard to stay in. Some, like Doctors, are the opposite. If you have a choice, give it some thought.

qlai · Mar 16, 2019

Banjo said:
Does Tiny Nonprofit Hold a Key to the Middle Class?

It's funny, when I read the article I replace "programming/tech" with "trading" and end up with the same business model ... Take thousands wide eyed optimists, tell them the success stories, charge them for education(not in this article, but most do). I suspect 1-5% will make a career out of it and the rest will "fail." Sounds familiar?

fan27 · Mar 16, 2019

I think these bootcamp style programs are good for the right type of person (i.e. certain level of intelligence and enjoys solving problems). Looking back at my time in college, there were only a couple semesters worth of course work that were needed for me to start adding value to an employer at an entry level IT related position. That being said, I really enjoyed coding then and still do now. There were plenty of people in my major (MIS) that heard you could get a good paying job with that major only to learn they had no desire or aptitude for coding and dropped out of the program. This was around 1999 and there was huge demand for Y2K related updates.

I also think it is a good idea to spend some time working for a company (ideally one that builds and sells software) that is functional where you can learn programming, support, sales etc. best practices. I was fortunate to spend 13 years at a company that primarily sold digital imaging SDKs and I learned a lot....both what to do and what not to do. I am at a point now where it is looking like I might not ever need another "day job" again but it has taken me awhile to get here.

nooby_mcnoob · Mar 16, 2019

fan27 said:
I think these bootcamp style programs are good for the right type of person (i.e. certain level of intelligence and enjoys solving problems). Looking back at my time in college, there were only a couple semesters worth of course work that were needed for me to start adding value to an employer at an entry level IT related position. That being said, I really enjoyed coding then and still do now. There were plenty of people in my major (MIS) that heard you could get a good paying job with that major only to learn they had no desire or aptitude for coding and dropped out of the program. This was around 1999 and there was huge demand for Y2K related updates.

I also think it is a good idea to spend some time working for a company (ideally one that builds and sells software) that is functional where you can learn programming, support, sales etc. best practices. I was fortunate to spend 13 years at a company that primarily sold digital imaging SDKs and I learned a lot....both what to do and what not to do. I am at a point now where it is looking like I might not ever need another "day job" again but it has taken me awhile to get here.

The one thing I regret in my career is not staying at the flagship companies... Those that look really good on someone's bio. Problem is that I'm just a terrible employee. I tell my kids that they should expect to be fired around 40-45 so go hard from grad and plan your exit ~35-40. Save, invest and network and they'll never need a day job after 35.