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IN THIS THREAD: IronFist learns (the elusive) PRICE ACTION
- Thread starter IronFist
- Start date
Quote from bigsnack:
IF, do you still check in on this thread? I hope you are still enjoying the journey towards consistent profitability. This thread has been extremely informative and helpful, and I hope you are still out there.
I do from time to time. Im still studying trading but it's taken a back seat to some other business ventures at the moment. I don't use any indicators.
I am new this forum, but still wanted to give my .02, as I am embracing this concept of PA more and more as I go along.
From what I can gather from the charts that you posted, I always felt that you entered way too late. For me, the easiest way to determine the end of a trend is to look for a LL to determine the end of a bullish trend, or a HH to determine the end of a bearish one.
I can never tell if it's an HH or LL until it's already been developed, and by then it's "too late."
I don't really look at HH or LL anymore because HH's in downtrends and LL's in uptrends are too common. I don't feel that it is reliable. In other words, just because you get an LL doesn't mean price isn't going to keep going up and make new highs.
I also have a scale out method that puts me into a completely risk free trade very very quickly, so that I can afford to be wrong without getting hammered. It does mean that I have to be right more than wrong, but my first target is very modest (2 ticks) and I am fairly confident that I can achieve that if I wait for the most "perfect" setups.
Care to share this method? how does 2 ticks get you risk free? do you move the stop to BE? 2 ticks is noise. I would think the BE stop would definitely be hit if it was only 2 ticks away.
Quote from konviction:
I've seen a lot of car accidents. Never been in one, but I always tell people to buckle their seat belt. GET MY POINT?
Mind your own business.
All I'm saying is there are already enough people in the trading world who are acting like gurus when they are not profitable themselves.
It's one thing to say "here's something to look at" but it's another to present "advice" as factual in the context of "this is what I do to make money" when you don't, in fact make money.
Telling someone to wear a seatbelt is preventative. It's like telling someone not to take big losses. It's preventative in nature and has nothing to do with application of a skillset.
Therefore, your analogy of telling someone to wear a seatbelt being like giving trading advice is flawed. IronFist has demonstrated great quantitative analysis throughout this thread and seems to be a pretty logical guy. I'm sure he also noticed the flaw in your analogy and simply choose to ignore it. Here is a more correct analogy that is still focused on driving:
Giving trading advice would be analagous to getting instruction on how to perform racing techniqes in a car.
Who are you going to take advice from about how to race a car? Someone who reads a lot about race cars? Or someone who has actually raced and won?
Who are you going to take advice from about how to fight? Someone who does forms and point sparring all day? Or someone who actually trains against resisting opponents and has won NHB fights before?
Who should IronFist take trading advice from? Someone who reads a lot but still isn't profitable himself despite giving advice under the false context that he is profitable? Or someone who is actually profitable?
I don't have a problem with you, but I have an issue with people presenting their "opinions" as fact. Your posts come off with this type of feeling:
"I am a profitable trader. I am presenting this information to you as fact rather than as my opinion. Study this chart. When X happens, it means Y. I use this obviously easy pattern recognition to make money trading. Let me give you some more wisdom..."
When they should actually feel more like this:
"Here are some things I was reading about. They may be helpful to you. I'm not profitable yet but I'll share this information because it might be helpful to you although it's not written in stone. Even I haven't fully mastered the application of it as evidenced by the fact that I don't make money trading."
Do you really feel you're qualified to give advice on pitchforks (or whatever you use) when you're not even profitable with them (and therefore it can be assumed that you don't, in fact, know how to use them and therefore are not actually suited to be giving advice)?
There is nothing flawed about my statement. If you bothered to think 5 seconds about it before going on your little rant, then you might have come to the conclusion that the example I gave was to give the meaning of " I don't need to live through an experience in order to give a helpful tip to someone especially when I/ and the general public know the result of not wearing a seat belt can be fatal ". However in trading, I've been bruised a few times, and so my experience and sporadic profitability alone is more than enough to lend a hand.
You seem to really love throwing the word "Guru" around. No where have I ever said I was a guru. Nor am I acting like one.
LOL! So being preventative is NOT a skillset?..am I reading that right? Last time I checked, the major duty of any trader is to be preventative in nature by PREVENTING losses while maximizing gains. That is most definitely a skillset. Where have you been?
I post charts on forks, where do you see me giving your so called "advice". You must have delusional personality disorder , or some sh-t, or maybe you're just the kind of guy that rode the short bus to school, in which case I can't be mad at you.
I'm not going to trash Iron's thread. But I'll tell you this:
Let Iron deside for himself if he thinks my GURU ADVICE lol is helpful to him. I saw that he was going long on bearish candles, and thought I might be able to suggest a better option.
kon
You seem to really love throwing the word "Guru" around. No where have I ever said I was a guru. Nor am I acting like one.
Telling someone to wear a seatbelt is preventative. It's like telling someone not to take big losses. It's preventative in nature and has nothing to do with application of a skillset.
LOL! So being preventative is NOT a skillset?..am I reading that right? Last time I checked, the major duty of any trader is to be preventative in nature by PREVENTING losses while maximizing gains. That is most definitely a skillset. Where have you been?
Do you really feel you're qualified to give advice on pitchforks (or whatever you use) when you're not even profitable with them (and therefore it can be assumed that you don't, in fact, know how to use them and therefore are not actually suited to be giving advice)?
I post charts on forks, where do you see me giving your so called "advice". You must have delusional personality disorder , or some sh-t, or maybe you're just the kind of guy that rode the short bus to school, in which case I can't be mad at you.
I'm not going to trash Iron's thread. But I'll tell you this:
Let Iron deside for himself if he thinks my GURU ADVICE lol is helpful to him. I saw that he was going long on bearish candles, and thought I might be able to suggest a better option.
kon
Quote from konviction:
There is nothing flawed about my statement. If you bothered to think 5 seconds about it before going on your little rant, then you might have come to the conclusion that the example I gave was to give the meaning of " I don't need to live through an experience in order to give a helpful tip to someone especially when I/ and the general public know the result of not wearing a seat belt can be fatal ".
You're still missing the point.
"Wear your seatbelt" is general preventative advice that is common knowledge. Even if you've never been in a car before, you still know that "wear your seatbelt" is good advice.
Talking about specific trading strategies, however, such as pitchforks or dark cloud covers, is not general advice. It is not common knowledge. It is specific advice that carries with it an implied knowledge and experience.
If I say "look, here's a pitchfork, go long here and go short here" that is specific advice. If I do not use that technique myself profitably, then it doesn't make sense for me to be giving that specific advice under the implication that it will work.
It's entirely different from "wear your seatbelt."
An analagous example using cars again would be someone who has never rally raced telling someone specifically how and when they should use heel-toe shifting. You can read about it all day, but if you've never actually done it successfully it doesn't make sense for you to be giving someone advice on it like you're some racing veteran.
However in trading, I've been bruised a few times, and so my experience and sporadic profitability alone is more than enough to lend a hand.
So you have a system that is sometimes profitable and from that you're giving concrete, specific advice?
Isn't that a bit like saying to someone "oh dude, when you roll a die you should bet that #3 will come up, because sometimes that happens for me!"
You aren't consistently profitable because you still haven't figured out what works for you. Like if someone trades using MACD (obviously they aren't going to make money despite all the BS in that SPM thread). They will sometimes get some trades right and make money. But sometimes they will do the same thing and lose money. Are they qualified to give advice about using the MACD in an objective "buy when this happens, sell when this happens" manner?
You seem to really love throwing the word "Guru" around. No where have I ever said I was a guru. Nor am I acting like one.
Obviously you never claimed to be a guru. But struggling traders who talk like veterans is very "guru-like" behavior.
LOL! So being preventative is NOT a skillset?..am I reading that right? Last time I checked, the major duty of any trader is to be preventative in nature by PREVENTING losses while maximizing gains. That is most definitely a skillset. Where have you been?
Now you're taking things out of context.
Your preventative advice ("wear your seatbelt") was not analagous to the specific advice you were giving IronFist. That is why you're taking things out of context now.
It's like if someone is going to be working construction and you tell them "wear your hardhat!" Is that specific helpful advice that governs the intricacies of tasks they must perform? Of course not! It's general advice.
So if a construction worker is having problems with his riveting technique or something, it makes no sense to say "hey dude don't forget your hardhat!"
I post charts on forks, where do you see me giving your so called "advice". You must have delusional personality disorder , or some sh-t, or maybe you're just the kind of guy that rode the short bus to school, in which case I can't be mad at you.
Mature.
I'm not going to trash Iron's thread. But I'll tell you this:
Let Iron deside for himself if he thinks my GURU ADVICE lol is helpful to him. I saw that he was going long on bearish candles, and thought I might be able to suggest a better option.
"bearish candles" Is that analysis based on your profitable trading history? If trading is as easy as "don't go long on bearish candles," why aren't you profitable?
i followed his fork thread for awhile and he showed a fork,where he entered,what his expectant target was,where he exited,winners and losers,can't ask for anymore than that,this is just a website where traders share ideas,he's doing that,hopefully by sharing,others will do the same and we progress along the learning curve,cop onQuote from 1a2b3cppp:
You're still missing the point.
"Wear your seatbelt" is general preventative advice that is common knowledge. Even if you've never been in a car before, you still know that "wear your seatbelt" is good advice.
Talking about specific trading strategies, however, such as pitchforks or dark cloud covers, is not general advice. It is not common knowledge. It is specific advice that carries with it an implied knowledge and experience.
If I say "look, here's a pitchfork, go long here and go short here" that is specific advice. If I do not use that technique myself profitably, then it doesn't make sense for me to be giving that specific advice under the implication that it will work.
It's entirely different from "wear your seatbelt."
An analagous example using cars again would be someone who has never rally raced telling someone specifically how and when they should use heel-toe shifting. You can read about it all day, but if you've never actually done it successfully it doesn't make sense for you to be giving someone advice on it like you're some racing veteran.
So you have a system that is sometimes profitable and from that you're giving concrete, specific advice?
Isn't that a bit like saying to someone "oh dude, when you roll a die you should bet that #3 will come up, because sometimes that happens for me!"
You aren't consistently profitable because you still haven't figured out what works for you. Like if someone trades using MACD (obviously they aren't going to make money despite all the BS in that SPM thread). They will sometimes get some trades right and make money. But sometimes they will do the same thing and lose money. Are they qualified to give advice about using the MACD in an objective "buy when this happens, sell when this happens" manner?
Obviously you never claimed to be a guru. But struggling traders who talk like veterans is very "guru-like" behavior.
Now you're taking things out of context.
Your preventative advice ("wear your seatbelt") was not analagous to the specific advice you were giving IronFist. That is why you're taking things out of context now.
It's like if someone is going to be working construction and you tell them "wear your hardhat!" Is that specific helpful advice that governs the intricacies of tasks they must perform? Of course not! It's general advice.
So if a construction worker is having problems with his riveting technique or something, it makes no sense to say "hey dude don't forget your hardhat!"
Mature.
"bearish candles" Is that analysis based on your profitable trading history? If trading is as easy as "don't go long on bearish candles," why aren't you profitable?