IN THIS THREAD: IronFist learns (the elusive) PRICE ACTION

[vingbel]

Quote from IronFist:

lol. ok.

Again, I have no proof that you're actually a profitable trader. How do I know I won't do my 500 hours of community service (or wire you $2,000 like you asked for via PM) and then you end up being like Jack Hershey or Woodie or any of the other trading "gurus" who aren't profitable and whose systems don't actually work and/or can't teach me anything. Then I've wasted my time.

I need to be sure of what I'm getting before I spend time or money on it.

So you see, as I said in PM, I'm managing risk.

Don't feel too special, tho; I would've said the same thing to anyone who asked for payment up front in order to teach me to trade; especially to some random person online.

So before anyone else PMs me with the same offer, the only conditions under which I would pay someone to teach me to trade would work as follows:

I pay you a percentage of profits for a period of time after my instruction is complete. This protects me in case your method doesn't work or in case I cannot learn from you. If your method is legit AND I am able to learn from you, AND I end up being profitable, you get paid.

I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

No one is going to teach you under that agreement. I have no idea who ggoyal is or whether he is a profitable trader, but I will say this. Whether he is or not may impact what you learn. In my non-trading profession, have learned from people who do their job half as well as I do mine. But I picked up something from them.

Granted I did not have to pay for that knowledge. Here what I suggest and many traders who sell one on one training will do this. I will also become a customer of ggoyal if he agrees to this. One free hour or half hour of training to see if we think this guy is a good teacher. If he's good, great, I'm in for paying for the next lesson. NOT BECAUSE his method might or might not work. That depends on too many other things including ME. But because I know he can teach and because he has some knowledge to impart.

BTW, I just did this with a teacher for futures trading last week. The teacher was horrible. His method might have been great, but I'll never know because he couldn't answer questions about it and refused to explain things clearly. So, we both knew it wouldn't work out. He thought I was too "inquisitive" and I thought he didn't know what he was talking about.

I would love to be coached by Anek or one of his peeps. But when push comes to shove, they disappear into the ethernet, so I don't know if you or I could actually be coached by him or once of his (real) disciples.

 

[IronFist]

Quote from vingbel:

The teacher was horrible. His method might have been great, but I'll never know because he couldn't answer questions about it and refused to explain things clearly. So, we both knew it wouldn't work out. He thought I was too "inquisitive" and I thought he didn't know what he was talking about.

You bring up a great point.

I used to be a corporate trainer (before I got laid off, lol), and every once in a while you get a student who sort of can't learn from you (rarely happened to me because I am awesome and adaptive to almost anyone's learning style).

The guy I replaced, however, was apparently really bad. I heard from other employees who used to be trained by him that people would occasionally leave his classes in tears because he was a horrible teacher and was insulting, dismissive of questions, etc.

I have also had my fair share of awful trainers in the workplace, where I literally knew less after the class than before.

In fact, I would say that more than 50% of the trainers I've had in the workplace have been "inefficient."

Therefore there is no way I would pay for training from someone I don't even know, haven't seen their track record, etc. Especially in a world as full of charlatans as the trading world. Look at all the gurus, mentors, indicators for sale on the internet. None of them work. Look at all the landing strip webpages that are 400px wide by a mile long selling "can't lose Forex systems that can be yours for only $99.95 (act now, this is a limited time offer! (see the little javascript countdown timer?))"

Your alternative proposal of taking a trial lesson first may be acceptable.

But I think it would be absolutely nuts to pay someone when you're basically blind as to what, if anything, you'll be getting in return.

 

[vingbel]

Quote from IronFist:

You bring up a great point.

I used to be a corporate trainer (before I got laid off, lol), and every once in a while you get a student who sort of can't learn from you (rarely happened to me because I am awesome and adaptive to almost anyone's learning style).

The guy I replaced, however, was apparently really bad. I heard from other employees who used to be trained by him that people would occasionally leave his classes in tears because he was a horrible teacher and was insulting, dismissive of questions, etc.

I have also had my fair share of awful trainers in the workplace, where I literally knew less after the class than before.

In fact, I would say that more than 50% of the trainers I've had in the workplace have been "inefficient."

Therefore there is no way I would pay for training from someone I don't even know, haven't seen their track record, etc. Especially in a world as full of charlatans as the trading world. Look at all the gurus, mentors, indicators for sale on the internet. None of them work. Look at all the landing strip webpages that are 400px wide by a mile long selling "can't lose Forex systems that can be yours for only $99.95 (act now, this is a limited time offer! (see the little javascript countdown timer?))"

Your alternative proposal of taking a trial lesson first may be acceptable.

But I think it would be absolutely nuts to pay someone when you're basically blind as to what, if anything, you'll be getting in return.

Agreed. One hundred percent. So anyone who wants to offer us training just needs to do a demo, then I think both IronFist and I will be glad to sign up.

But, in lieu of that (meaning paying for a proven teacher, not necessarily a proven track record) picking up tidpits is better than paying a guru who can't even teach.

By the way, IronFist, you convinced to try OHCL bars, yet? I ask only for selfish reasons -- So I can better "see" your charts!

I also have another suggestion that may help. Have you tried swing trading equities? I found that to be great training for futures trading. I'm actually thinking of going back to it as work has picked up and I don't have as much time to day trade.

 

[IronFist]

I still don't see a difference between candles and OHLC bars but I tell you what, I will use OHLC bars next week since everyone seems to want me to.

But they both provide exactly the same info:

- whether price closed higher, equal to, or less than the open of the bar

- the open, high, low, and close of the bar

The only difference I've seen is that you can fit more OHLC bars onto a given amount of screen space because they're a little narrower.

I think candles are more aesthetically pleasing to look at which is why I use them, but like I said, I'll give OHLC bars a chance.

 

[KingZardoz]

If the difference between failure and success was candles and OHLC then everybody would be a winner. It doesn't matter. Anybody who says it does is simply imposing their personal preference on an issue that is 1% relevant to trading well.

 

[vingbel]

Quote from KingZardoz:

If the difference between failure and success was candles and OHLC then everybody would be a winner. It doesn't matter. Anybody who says it does is simply imposing their personal preference on an issue that is 1% relevant to trading well.

As I said in earlier posts, it doesn't make a difference. It's just a personal preference. If candles work for you, then use them. IronFist was exploring so I made a suggestion. In the long run, he may end up using candles. For me, and this is just me, I used candles andm when I switched to bars, my trading improved. I "saw" things that I didn't see before. Who the hell knows why? If you like candles, it's probably because for you, you see things much more clearly with candles. To each his own.

And, as I said to IronFist, I wanted to see what he was doing in terms of bar charts for my own selfish reasons. It's easier for me to comment on his charts as I'm so used to bars now. Why I see his charts as candles, I no longer see candles as clearly as I used to when I used them.

 

[KingZardoz]

Quote from vingbel:

As I said in earlier posts, it doesn't make a difference. It's just a personal preference. If candles work for you, then use them. IronFist was exploring so I made a suggestion. In the long run, he may end up using candles. For me, and this is just me, I used candles andm when I switched to bars, my trading improved. I "saw" things that I didn't see before. Who the hell knows why? If you like candles, it's probably because for you, you see things much more clearly with candles. To each his own.

And, as I said to IronFist, I wanted to see what he was doing in terms of bar charts for my own selfish reasons. It's easier for me to comment on his charts as I'm so used to bars now. Why I see his charts as candles, I no longer see candles as clearly as I used to when I used them.

sorry, i didnt mean to phrase my comment in such an authoritative tone. I haven't been keeping up with the journal and I saw IF's last post so I figured people were discussing the grand importance of the style of bars one uses.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from IronFist:

lol. ok.

Again, I have no proof that you're actually a profitable trader. How do I know I won't do my 500 hours of community service (or wire you $2,000 like you asked for via PM) and then you end up being like Jack Hershey or Woodie or any of the other trading "gurus" who aren't profitable and whose systems don't actually work and/or can't teach me anything. Then I've wasted my time.

From what little I see, you can be pretty sure ggoyal is NOT a profitable trader. Most of the ET people who claim so are not. Except maybe on paper.

Profitable mentors do not seem to behave as he/she did, including the 'putting you on ignore" over an apparent request of your community service. Very very strange.

If they cannot prove that they are profitable, and pursue you in any way, then they should be considered to be among the 99% of gurus/service providers who cannot trade.

Strange.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from IronFist:

I still don't see a difference between candles and OHLC bars ...



But they both provide exactly the same info:...

You are correct there is no real difference.
If you are struggling with one changing to the other isn't going to "change" anything.

 

[nexx]

Quote from Lucrum:

You are correct there is no real difference.
If you are struggling with one changing to the other isn't going to "change" anything.

Actually for me it did, i fully understand the information is the same but i was struggling with Candle charts because i found out with candles i was always distracted by looking for candle patters like oh theirs a morning star, oh there a humari etc, so i switched to OHLC bars and instead of looking for candle patters for me at least it help greatly for just reading price action (again that's for me everyone different and should see what works for them), on my lower time frame chart i actually also just use High/Low bars which also display Price action very well if you trade PA alone, I also now use no indicators except 1 on a daily chart for night time analysis.