IN THIS THREAD: IronFist learns (the elusive) PRICE ACTION

[IronFist]

Quote from KingZardoz:

dead on. IF, you might still be thinking of discretionary PA trading as system trading. Two different mindsets IMO

I think you might be right.

I don't think I can do discretionary trading because it's not specific. I don't like room for interpretation.

I also don't really think "discretionary" trading exists, because unless someone is entering randomly, they ARE using rules to enter, and rules can be coded. Someone sees a chart and sees HH, HL, HH, wedge, bouncing off support, whatever, they might enter and think it's discretionary, but they subconsciously based it on many rules/conditions in their brain, many of which may have just been pattern recognition (ie. "last time I saw this pattern xyz happened")

Even if discretionary trading existed, it couldn't be taught any more than a "hunch" could be taught, so this thread would be pointless.

Of course, if that "hunch" is based on subconscious computations of multiple data sets, then it's not a hunch, it's actually a formulaic system (even if the trader doesn't realize it at the time).

In other words, if I cannot codify PA into something at least semi-concrete, that can be written out in rules in English, I won't be able to learn it or apply it to my trading.

 

[IronFist]

Quote from Lamont_C:

Pretend. If you trade all or none, you're asking for a whole host of emotional entanglements.

Why would I pretend? When I use live money I'm going to be trading 1 YM contract. Why would I practice by doing something different than how I'm actually going to do it IRL?

 

[IronFist]

Quote from temptingtara:

IF, to over simply the answer to your trend question, when you have a Low, then a reversal up from that Low to a High, that is a potential Trend Reversal.

When PA falls back to a HL and next rises above the prior High, the trend has reversed.

I like that definition.

To me, I would logically think that only 3 points would be required.

A lower low, followed by a high, followed by a higher low than the first, to me would constitute an up trend. See attached post.

Of course I'm usually wrong about this stuff.

 

[Lamont_C]

Quote from IronFist:

I can't answer because it's in hindsight now. So I know the correct answer for that particular chart.

Well, it's up to you. Best of luck.

 

[vingbel]

Quote from IronFist:

I like that definition.

To me, I would logically think that only 3 points would be required.

A lower low, followed by a high, followed by a higher low than the first, to me would constitute an up trend. See attached post.

Of course I'm usually wrong about this stuff.

That defines a POTENTIAL reversal, not a reversal. You can't trade off of it. In my humble opinion, you need, at least five points, to enter a trade.

That is if you're using a system and PA. Have tried entering after LOW, HH, HL, HH, HL? If so, how did you do?

 

[nkhoi]

Quote from IronFist:

I Attachment: uptrend.gif

range contraction

 

[pclark]

IF,

Here is a chart from today. I have marked what I see as far as price. The way I see it you are never going to know for sure about trends, pull backs etc... You have to take a chance based on probability. If you don't want to chance a long term trend by staying in then go from pull back to pull back. Wait for the consolidation and wait to see if price continues or reverses. If it reverses make sure it's a good reversal HH, HL or LL, LH etc.. also you should let the reversal get past the last swing high or swing low depending on the direction the trend was in before the reversal.

 

[IronFist]

^ thanks.

What determines the colors of your candles? J/w

 

[IronFist]

Quote from vingbel:

That defines a POTENTIAL reversal, not a reversal. You can't trade off of it. In my humble opinion, you need, at least five points, to enter a trade.

So after points 3 and 4 have plotted, it's still in the middle phase of "determining trend" or "possibly reversing"? (see first image in attachment)

Seems like there could be a lot of times when it's not trending, then. Interesting. (see second image in attachment)

The numbers in parenthesis indicate new points for potential new trends. So the first "4" is the 4th point of a possible uptrend, but it's also the 1st point of a potential downtrend, which is why the second point is 2.

So you're saying in the second example, where 5 points in the same trend are never made, you would not have taken any position, correct?

 

[pclark]

Quote from IronFist:

^ thanks.

What determines the colors of your candles? J/w

I have the Ergodic bar indicator for NT. You can get if off of the NT support forums. Do a search for ECO bars. They can be helpful but I have not really been using them for a while. They are just setup on my template. I change things around every once in a while to see if I can find something a little different. I am like you and really trying to see price action.