IN THIS THREAD: IronFist learns (the elusive) PRICE ACTION

Quote from nukethewhales31:

i did answer your question read again

you can not predict the future with accuracy thus you are taking random entries with probability of things happening in the future aka preparing for when price moves in your favor ....................................

one leads to the other quickly... but the other doesnt lead to the one quickly.

so when you look at the chart without anything on it clear your mind watch the next bar form... understand why and how the bar forms and why it ends up looking the way it does in live action not after its closed.

so whats your ultimate goal?

ntw31

You are one of very few people who have written a reasonably clear understanding of the essence of trading.

I would suggest to readers that if it is not clear to you, it is because it is not clear to you.
In other words, you own the problem and you may resolve it through a change in attitude, or most probably you are simply not cut out for trading, and in the confusion of frustration you cannot see that either.

regards
f9
 
Quote from brownsfan019:

I did not watch the vid's Iron but my guess would be buying/selling at low volume areas could be something to consider b/c historically those areas have shown to be quick rejection areas.

In other words, where this is heavy volume = big players gathering contracts; low volume = areas that typically were quickly rejected due to quick and swift buying/selling and no interest by a counterparty to fight back.

In theory, the low volume areas could show where the bulls or bears have previously come in w/ 100% conviction to defend meanwhile the opposite traders said no thanks.

Assuming that theory is correct, you could attempt to pick off these spots assuming what happened previously will happen again. I'm not sure how you would find these areas (perhaps the videos discuss this) and would obviously require some testing.
these araes show up on the market profile,they are single prints,1 letter at the top and 1 letter at the bottom, they also show up on the dom,not always,but if avg bid/ask size is 250-700, and it all of the sudden is 5000 bid and 5000 offer,you've hit one of those reversal areas
 
Quote from Bingoking:

That market price action you are seeing in the DOM is the same market you are trying to trade with a chart. The only difference is the DOM is present tense and the chart is past tense. Length of bars/candles is a direct reflection of the action that just took place in the DOM. A lot depends on the time frame you are trying to trade and what your expectation per trade is. For longer term moves I would not use the DOM. But for shorter term trades I think it is the way to go.
Gotta run, be back later.

Bingoking,

I have never mastered the DOM for reasons that I will not confuse you with.

However as a short term Trader, I would be grateful (along with others, I am sure) if you could walk us through your interpretation of just how the DOM assists in your trading.

regards
f9
 
Quote from fearless9:

ntw31

You are one of very few people who have written a reasonably clear understanding of the essence of trading.

I would suggest to readers that if it is not clear to you, it is because it is not clear to you.
In other words, you own the problem and you may resolve it through a change in attitude, or most probably you are simply not cut out for trading, and in the confusion of frustration you cannot see that either.

regards
f9
in the statement ,you are not cut out for trading,if you were in a lifeboat surviving a shipwrecka nd you said i'm not cut out for rowing,you would die,if you said i will become the best rower ever,you would survive
 
Quote from ammo:

in the statement ,you are not cut out for trading,if you were in a lifeboat surviving a shipwrecka nd you said i'm not cut out for rowing,you would die,if you said i will become the best rower ever,you would survive

You are dreaming ammo in making this comparison.
What has a shipwreck got to do with trading.


regards
f9
 
Quote from fearless9:

ntw31

You are one of very few people who have written a reasonably clear understanding of the essence of trading.

I would suggest to readers that if it is not clear to you, it is because it is not clear to you.
In other words, you own the problem and you may resolve it through a change in attitude, or most probably you are simply not cut out for trading, and in the confusion of frustration you cannot see that either.

regards
f9
Excellent post ... probably the most meaningful post on the thread.

Someting that I've been trying to figure out how to say, but you said it much better than I ... hey, you aren't from NY are you?
 
Quote from fearless9:

ntw31

You are one of very few people who have written a reasonably clear understanding of the essence of trading.

I would suggest to readers that if it is not clear to you, it is because it is not clear to you.
In other words, you own the problem and you may resolve it through a change in attitude, or most probably you are simply not cut out for trading, and in the confusion of frustration you cannot see that either.

regards
f9

thanks f9
 
Ironfist

there is nothing elusive about price action but maybe i can help you. the only thing that makes it seem that way is that there is so much of it.

how about we start with a clear definition of what Price action is.

price action is written proof of the changing of money. it is a map rolled out with the route price has taken on it.

price action is the footprint of money.

what does price action consist of?

market structure
bars- HH/HL, LH/LL, HH/LL, LH/HL
Elliot wave
MP STYLE PRICE ACCUMULATION
patterns
mp

Under bar i suggest you read about
up bar-HH/HL
down bar-LH/LL
outside bar-HH/LL
inside bar-LH/HL

in relation to previous bar or previous 3 or 5

i suggest you read elliot wave theory and dig deep do not just break the surface.

that cbot handbook i posted so that youll understand mp style price accumulation
1-2-3 structure
youll answer all you questions about the DOM and realize its pointless and that your not getting anymore than lookin at price.

i than encourage you to learn Price action patterns
yes candlestick patterns
as well as
the bat
cup and handle
123 reversal
2b
flag
dragon


when your done youve read about 1/10th of the information concerning price action
 
Broz trades DOW emini, Bonds (10yr and 5 yr notes). His methods have not been tested in other markets.

Quote from IronFist:
What is his reasoning for saying you should buy/sell at prices with low historical volume on the DOM?

He does not exactly say that. 1st let me give a brief overview of what the vid's contain so people who did not watch them can follow the discussion.

Broz's primary tools in trading are S/R from his chart and a volume histogram (a la Market Profile) which he puts next to the DOM. Prices where large volume has traded are S/R areas and he aligns them with his chart S/R. He was a pit trader, so no surprise, he trades like one. He looks above the market and enters sell limit orders at what he sees as S/R, similarly below the market. Then he waits for prices 'to come to him'. He uses a 17 tick stop and a 6-8 tick profit target.

Broz does not pay attention to the bid/ask volume on the DOM unless it is large (over 100 on the DOW emini). Then he tries to determine if it is real or fake. If he decides it's real, he will take a counter position a tick or 2 in front of it assuming prices will reverse.



Also, watching the vid of his DOM... it updates like once per second... is that normal? When I watch my DOM, it updates like 50 times per second, which is why I say DOM moves too fast for humans to trade off of.

The interest rate futures are frequently very boring, like watching paint dry.

The vid's I saw were during lunchtime and things can get pretty slow then.

Bill
 
Hello IF,

Let me give you a few practical tips for trading PA.

1. Determine the direction of the trend and only trade with it. (don't trade in congestion, don't trade countertrend)

2. The earlier in a trend you enter a trade, the greater the chances of success and vice versa. Prices tend to move in waves and after 3 waves in 1 direction, you should be expecting a bigger than average PB or an outright reversal of prices.

3. Prices tend to move between S/R levels. Avoid trading into S/R. Lowest risk entries are close to S/R because you can use a small clearly defined stop. S/R are good places to take profits.

4. S/R levels tend to get retested. How prices react near S/R give you clues as to how much Buying/Selling pressure there is and whether a trend will continue or reverse.

5. Trade at least 2 contracts. Take one off as a scalp, move stop to BE+1, and keep the rest on to try and catch a runner. That way you will get paid on most trades and still give yourself the opportunity to catch a bigger move.

6. Use multiple fractals to monitor the market. Setups that occur on 2 or more have a higher probability of success.

7. A good entry technique is trading PB's in a trend.

Bill
 
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