De Prado has kept his mouth shut about COVID since spring and never brought it up again. If he was "so right" he would be continuing the promotion of his "theories" I guess he personally recognized that he is a idiot when it comes to epidemiology and has kept his mouth shut. You should do the same.
In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart
- Thread starter wildchild
- Start date
De Prado has kept his mouth shut about COVID since spring and never brought it up again. If he was "so right" he would be continuing the promotion of his "theories" I guess he personally recognized that he is a idiot when it comes to epidemiology and has kept his mouth shut. You should do the same.
Yes, in Canada, I consider our approach a success. Not a perfect response but pretty damn good since April. Again, the experts said the second wave would likely be stronger then the first very early in this experience. In terms of relative openness, infection/death rates, and impact on our economy, we came out better then most with similar geographical and demographic conditions. Could we have done better ? No doubt but Ontario in particular dodged a lot of bullets so far.
Our one big failure was the poor conditions in privately run long term care homes. On that point, we were the worst on the planet, even worse then Sweden that you kept bringing up. A huge proportion of Covid deaths in Canada through maybe September were in those homes ( I believe 82% of all deaths ).
It seems to me that you had unreasonable expectations all along.
That approach... which you advocated... and praised Germany for...
has led to the same deaths per day per million as Sweden (right now.)
you and your team considers Sweden a massive failure. ..
you post propaganda about the failure almost every day.
Grow the fuck up.
This is serious.
Your approach failed....miserably.
Why are they still dying in numbers so drastic that our hospitals are full
if your approach worked.
If the vaccine does not work well...
we need a new approach...
one designed to the protect the high risk directly.
has led to the same deaths per day per million as Sweden (right now.)
you and your team considers Sweden a massive failure. ..
you post propaganda about the failure almost every day.
Grow the fuck up.
This is serious.
Your approach failed....miserably.
Why are they still dying in numbers so drastic that our hospitals are full
if your approach worked.
If the vaccine does not work well...
we need a new approach...
one designed to the protect the high risk directly.
if massive and still exploding covid cases... and deaths per million is success...
We really have nothing to talk about...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/canada/
now before you go... comparing Canada to others...
remember the US has also failed to implement proper policies is most if not all states.
We really have nothing to talk about...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/canada/
now before you go... comparing Canada to others...
remember the US has also failed to implement proper policies is most if not all states.
Lockdown never failed...they did what they were suppose to do.
They flatten the curve of infections, hospitalizations and deaths. In addition, they gave us more time to learn about the disease and get Operation Warp Speed started for the purpose to look for a vaccine.
- Yet, government decided to make it a political issue and not a health issue in which the government refuse to encourage citizens to wear face mask, talked about injecting bleach, mocked face mask wear and then couldn't protect themselves after holding events / parties (over capacity).
Simply, lockdowns were very successful and its seen in the flattening in the curve over the summer months. Easy to do when most people interacted outside which is why there weren't known outbreaks during protests / riots.
Yet, there were outbreaks associated with indoor events during the summer involving people not wearing a face mask.
Re-Opening
The problem started when many places didn't want to follow the guidelines during the Re-Opening and some still didn't have in place suitable contact tracing, still didn't resolve hospital capacity issues, still didn't resolve testing issues and still couldn't provide protection for those caring for the high risk...
The re-opening scared people and rightfully so because they knew they were not ready to manage Covid-19 in the healthcare system.
Regular people will get vaccinated by next summer. Hopefully, we can get to the 60 - 70% of vaccinated population so that vaccination herd immunity can then develop because natural herd immunity does not work as proven by Sweden situation along with the failure that begins to equal those that had a bad re-opening.
wrbtrader
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Lockdown... continued far beyond the first 2 to 3 weeks to flatten the curve and get hospital beds available.
We were still in lockdown during the nice weather low spread season.
It was stupid... beyond belief. As myself an others said back then.
How bad were the policies we followed?
Flattening the curve is unfortunately necessary again in many areas.
That is a failure to protect the high risk.
Why are the high risk still dying?
In case you don't understand logic and its implementation.
What I am writing is almost axiomatic...
I am writing this way... to shake your fucking brains free...
and try and flip you all out of your mushroom state.
Then when you are willing to accept...
your govts have not protected the high risk well enough...
We can actually have a useful dialogue.
Right now you are all so stupid... you can't think of anything...
but yes govt... yes we need lockdown.
You all seem to be in a trance.
You should be saying... why the hell didn't we try something better this second round.
Why are the high risk still dying and getting infected?
We should have protected them better.
Our first lockdown did not work at keep them from dying.
We were still in lockdown during the nice weather low spread season.
It was stupid... beyond belief. As myself an others said back then.
How bad were the policies we followed?
Flattening the curve is unfortunately necessary again in many areas.
That is a failure to protect the high risk.
Why are the high risk still dying?
In case you don't understand logic and its implementation.
What I am writing is almost axiomatic...
I am writing this way... to shake your fucking brains free...
and try and flip you all out of your mushroom state.
Then when you are willing to accept...
your govts have not protected the high risk well enough...
We can actually have a useful dialogue.
Right now you are all so stupid... you can't think of anything...
but yes govt... yes we need lockdown.
You all seem to be in a trance.
You should be saying... why the hell didn't we try something better this second round.
Why are the high risk still dying and getting infected?
We should have protected them better.
Our first lockdown did not work at keep them from dying.
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Jem, Rudy and Trump remind me of..
Not as cute though.
He won't ever answer any direct question on HOW to isolate the high risk.
Its simply not about Covid, or Sweden, just Jem making posts. That is what he is after and this is what he does on ET, makes his black holes. He gets pleasure from having far more intelligent people try and deal with his drivel.
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Lockdowns in my area lifted a few weeks before the re-opening of the schools.
Since the re-opening...businesses has remained open except a few problematic groups like bars, cinemas, restaurants that do not have outdoor dining / no delivery / no curb side pick up and sporting events except for professional that play without any fans in the stadium...
The bars / clubs are very problematic. Over flow of maskless customers, lines waiting around the corners into neighborhoods. Madness...people acting like it was the end of the world and just wanted to end it with a good night of partying.
Since the re-opening of the schools...just restrictions / measures...no lockdowns except for the border crossings.
There were a lot of research done in the longterm care facilities. The government realize that the elderly couldn't be protected because the "employees" were the problem...not the elderly. Simply, the employees were bringing the infection into the facilities because the employees were not being tested nor properly wearing protection equipment to keep the spread from the elderly or any other facility like "rehab" of those recovering from strokes, brain injury and such but were not elderly.
There's a reason why hospitals are fully in protection equipment when dealing with Covid-19 patients...to protect themselves but more to prevent spreading it to others like their co-workers and their own family when they return back home.
The same care was not...still is not being apply to Longterm Care Facilities. Employees are not wearing protection when dealing with the elderly and employees are then infecting their own family members.
The government even had to fine some facilities that penalize employees for wearing full protection equipment beyond a face mask while working with the elderly...
Crazy Madness
Sweden natural herd immunity failed (Swedish health officials admitted such) and Re-Opening failed everywhere else except for the few countries that did it right from the beginning.
I alone have posted several articles out of Sweden in which their own health officials state that the herd immunity experiment has failed. Others have posted their own articles by other Swedish health officials repeating the same thing...
Natural Herd Immunity Failed.
Why not admit such if Sweden can admit such ???
I think that's why we have problems with the rising numbers of Covid-19 infections, hospitalizations and deaths. Too many stubborn dumb asses arguing about something as little as a face mask while a few countries doing very well are not debating about the little shit like a face mask.
They just wear it, they have excellent contact tracing and excellent testing and they continue on with their life.
wrbtrader
Since the re-opening...businesses has remained open except a few problematic groups like bars, cinemas, restaurants that do not have outdoor dining / no delivery / no curb side pick up and sporting events except for professional that play without any fans in the stadium...
The bars / clubs are very problematic. Over flow of maskless customers, lines waiting around the corners into neighborhoods. Madness...people acting like it was the end of the world and just wanted to end it with a good night of partying.
Since the re-opening of the schools...just restrictions / measures...no lockdowns except for the border crossings.
There were a lot of research done in the longterm care facilities. The government realize that the elderly couldn't be protected because the "employees" were the problem...not the elderly. Simply, the employees were bringing the infection into the facilities because the employees were not being tested nor properly wearing protection equipment to keep the spread from the elderly or any other facility like "rehab" of those recovering from strokes, brain injury and such but were not elderly.
There's a reason why hospitals are fully in protection equipment when dealing with Covid-19 patients...to protect themselves but more to prevent spreading it to others like their co-workers and their own family when they return back home.
The same care was not...still is not being apply to Longterm Care Facilities. Employees are not wearing protection when dealing with the elderly and employees are then infecting their own family members.
The government even had to fine some facilities that penalize employees for wearing full protection equipment beyond a face mask while working with the elderly...
Crazy Madness
Sweden natural herd immunity failed (Swedish health officials admitted such) and Re-Opening failed everywhere else except for the few countries that did it right from the beginning.
- To continue debating about Sweden or lockdowns is mute by now. We do not live in Sweden nor have a similar like healthcare system.
I alone have posted several articles out of Sweden in which their own health officials state that the herd immunity experiment has failed. Others have posted their own articles by other Swedish health officials repeating the same thing...
Natural Herd Immunity Failed.
Why not admit such if Sweden can admit such ???
I think that's why we have problems with the rising numbers of Covid-19 infections, hospitalizations and deaths. Too many stubborn dumb asses arguing about something as little as a face mask while a few countries doing very well are not debating about the little shit like a face mask.
They just wear it, they have excellent contact tracing and excellent testing and they continue on with their life.
wrbtrader
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Implicitly you are agree with one of my points.
Rather than blanket lockdowns... they should be targeted and adjusted to your local areas..
If the data shows that spread is currently happening in problematic areas... then we should have polices that target those areas.
In CA our asshole governor shutdown playgrounds and outdoor eating with no data.
So.. we again probably see eye to eye.
Find the spread... and target it with targeted polices.
I am against most border crossing right now...
Unless the govt can test and quarantine or provide for other effective measures.
Right now a lot of Covid position is coming across the border into the US.
Most thinking people would agree... this is a pandemic after all.
Hey.. I don't know what your long term care facilities were doing .. but I saw very effective measures implemented here in Southern California.
They checked everyones temperature.
They made everyone wash their hands and put on new masks.
(because they know masks get comprised in minutes.)
They kept almost everyone out.
it worked well.
Could they do better maybe.
Isolation works.
Regarding hospitals... Unless you know people
working with Covid positive...(you may I do not know.)
But I would say responses are setting and symptomatic dependent.
Symptomatic vs asymptomatic matters in some situations...
Many times they have to treat asymptomatics before tests results come back.
There is a difference in how they respond.
I believe (but do not know for sure) resources and time require varied responses.
Rather than blanket lockdowns... they should be targeted and adjusted to your local areas..
If the data shows that spread is currently happening in problematic areas... then we should have polices that target those areas.
In CA our asshole governor shutdown playgrounds and outdoor eating with no data.
So.. we again probably see eye to eye.
Find the spread... and target it with targeted polices.
I am against most border crossing right now...
Unless the govt can test and quarantine or provide for other effective measures.
Right now a lot of Covid position is coming across the border into the US.
Most thinking people would agree... this is a pandemic after all.
Hey.. I don't know what your long term care facilities were doing .. but I saw very effective measures implemented here in Southern California.
They checked everyones temperature.
They made everyone wash their hands and put on new masks.
(because they know masks get comprised in minutes.)
They kept almost everyone out.
it worked well.
Could they do better maybe.
Isolation works.
Regarding hospitals... Unless you know people
working with Covid positive...(you may I do not know.)
But I would say responses are setting and symptomatic dependent.
Symptomatic vs asymptomatic matters in some situations...
Many times they have to treat asymptomatics before tests results come back.
There is a difference in how they respond.
I believe (but do not know for sure) resources and time require varied responses.
Lockdowns in my area lifted a few weeks before the re-opening of the schools.
Since the re-opening...businesses has remained open except a few problematic groups like bars, cinemas, restaurants that do not have outdoor dining / no delivery / no curb side pick up and sporting events except for professional that play without any fans in the stadium...
The bars / clubs are very problematic. Over flow of maskless customers, lines waiting around the corners into neighborhoods. Madness...people acting like it was the end of the world and just wanted to end it with a good night of partying.
Since the re-opening of the schools...just restrictions / measures...no lockdowns except for the border crossings.
There were a lot of research done in the longterm care facilities. The government realize that the elderly couldn't be protected because the "employees" were the problem...not the elderly. Simply, the employees were bringing the infection into the facilities because the employees were not being tested nor properly wearing protection equipment to keep the spread from the elderly or any other facility like "rehab" of those recovering from strokes, brain injury and such but were not elderly.
There's a reason why hospitals are fully in protection equipment when dealing with Covid-19 patients...to protect themselves but more to prevent spreading it to others like their co-workers and their own family when they return back home.
The same care was not...still is not being apply to Longterm Care Facilities. Employees are not wearing protection when dealing with the elderly and employees are then infecting their own family members.
The government even had to fine some facilities that penalize employees for wearing full protection equipment beyond a face mask while working with the elderly...
Crazy Madness
Sweden natural herd immunity failed (Swedish health officials admitted such) and Re-Opening failed everywhere else except for the few countries that did it right from the beginning.
Now we're all in the same boat...waiting for a vaccine but only if 60 - 70% gets vaccinated. If we don't reach that level...the same crap continues with Covid-19.
- To continue debating about Sweden or lockdowns is mute by now. We do not live in Sweden nor have a similar like healthcare system.
wrbtrader
Somebody remind Jem his mother died (of a broken heart I expect though not covid he proudly boasted) in nursing care isolation this very summer. Isolation works just great, except if you have a flattened curve and have taken the time to measure and manage the virus you can do visits in the garden and behind screens fairly safely.
He will never address how to completely isolate the vulnerable (a third of the USA) as a practical project in this better world where everyone else is free mixing. He can't grasp how literal exponential increase would end that party for the healthy all of a sudden.
He will never address how to completely isolate the vulnerable (a third of the USA) as a practical project in this better world where everyone else is free mixing. He can't grasp how literal exponential increase would end that party for the healthy all of a sudden.