In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart

[Nine_Ender]

1. First all all nobody has isolated the high risk the way I am advocating...


2. Your model failed... period. As predicted.

Obviously the way you are advocating is impractical almost nobody is taking you up on it. Do you not think the medical community has considered all options ?

 

[jem]

No country has tried what I am advocating now.
Where the hell do you get that idea?

Sweden has done as well with their more relaxed approach as the EU as a whole and many countries in the EU. So... I have no idea where you think you have made anything close to a sound argument.


Finally the kids have not been fine.
People are still dying.
The high risk are still getting sick.
Its insane... to think that worked.

Plus the healthy have been seriously harmed... by the very incompetent response of govt all over the world. And the response you have advocated has clearly failed.

To the point where we are now... which is not good... unless the vaccine works.

Many months ago, the consensus medical community relayed an important message that you apparently missed. Based on their research on history, they discovered two things :

1. Any attempts to isolate the "high risk" and allow the 'low risk" to operate normally in a pandemic almost always failed. The virus found a way to cross over.

2. Herd immunity without a vaccine never worked without massive casualties.

You simply can't ignore this and carry on like you know better then they do. Go ahead, show some working examples where this was not true. There are plenty of examples where what they said was true. Sweden was a somewhat isolated country that I believe has a fairly socially responsible community and a strong health care system. And now we are seeing that they remained fortunate in the summer but the full brunt of Covid has hit them now. Your assumptions on why their experience was so good in the summer was clearly wrong.

You just seem inflexible and bull headed on anything Covid, calling anyone who disagrees with you a moron or worse. As many of us said earlier this year, every community/state/country has the freedom to respond to Covid as they wish, subject of course to how the public behaves. You take your chances and deal with the consequences. I don't see how your approach in San Diego has worked out for you, but it was your choice as part of the public, and no amount of whining about the consequences is going to help you at this point. Whatever you got will be with you or worse for at least a month more at all times.

Bringing up the "kids" is very lame. The "kids" will be fine if the adults around them act responsibly and deal with Covid effectively. It's a slow learning curve in the US and a tragedy so many are getting sick and dying when the vaccine are coming very soon.

 

[wrbtrader]

Once again -- it is impossible to isolate the high risk. The very concept is a fantasy.

The proper option is to lower the COVDI infection level through ALL of society via proper public health practices to address a pandemic.

Let's take a look at yet another example of why "isolating the high risk" never works when facing a highly infectious disease.

23 people in nursing homes have died after 3 staffers attend 300-person wedding
Between the two Grant County facilities — Lake Ridge Center and Columbia Crest Center — officials have reported 23 deaths.
https://www.today.com/health/23-people-nursing-homes-have-died-after-3-staffers-attend-t203735

That's an excellent example out of many in which a government can not isolate the high risk because the government can not isolate those that care for the high risk.

Simply, Covid-19 is brought into the the Longterm Care Facilities by someone that's asymptomatic or showing no symptoms that then spreads it to the elderly living at the nursing homes.

There's a longterm care facility near my area that's privately manage. They test their employees every day and each employee are designated to specific group of elderly to make it easier for any contact tracing.

Any employee that test positive must quarantine for 14 days and are reported to the health officials for contact tracing. They are only allowed to return to work after testing negative again.

So far, that they have not had a single elderly patient become infected with Covid-19 to contrast other facilities that have had multiple outbreaks throughout this Pandemic because they do not test the employees.

wrbtrader

 

[Nine_Ender]

Has anyone at any time in this thread seen Jem address HOW we "take care of the high risk"?

How could half the population of the USA nearly be isolated from the rest.

He knows he can't answer this. I would suggest all ask him to give his plan with specifics. He just ignores every request for even the project outline.

As an experience PM, I can't see how it could be done without descending into a tragedy, others can't. But Jem has all here strung along by repeating this impossible thing.

Isolating the "high risk" would have to include guys like Rudy and Trump. Good luck rounding them all up and locking them up; good luck dealing with the arguments about who is "high risk" or not and their related freedoms.

 

[jem]

Here is my last point of day.


If I you knew that deaths would be reaching all time highs...
That the high risk were at risk of running out of hospital space....
After the quiet summer we had...

Would you consider the last round of lockdown a success?

Of course not.
You all are supporting failed policies.

 

[jem]

damn right... they are high risk.
I can not believe Rudy ran around the way he did.
He brain power has seriously diminished over time.

Isolating the "high risk" would have to include guys like Rudy and Trump. Good luck rounding them all up and locking them up; good luck dealing with the arguments about who is "high risk" or not and their related freedoms.

 

[Nine_Ender]

No country has tried what I am advocating now.
Where the hell do you get that idea?

Sweden has done as well with their more relaxed approach as the EU as a whole and many countries in the EU. So... I have no idea where you think you have made anything close to a sound argument.


Finally the kids have not been fine.
People are still dying.
The high risk are still getting sick.
Its insane... to think that worked.

Plus the healthy have been seriously harmed... by the very incompetent response of govt all over the world. And the response you have advocated has clearly failed.

To the point where we are now... which is not good... unless the vaccine works.

I have made a very sound argument based on actual medical community research. You just don't understand it, preferring instead to flail away with your theories calling everyone a moron who disagrees with you. Plus periodic whining about how hard done you are projecting that onto other people like the "kids". Enough already this got stupid months ago. Time to stfu and realize this is all beyond your pay scale.

 

[jem]

Actual medical research... really.
You all were locking us down during the time of year... the virus does not spread easily.

So fucking stupid...
De Prado... got this right in April.

Your team... has led us to this disaster...we are experiencing now... with your "medical research".

you are a mushroom.... kept in the dark and fed a lot of shit.
And you think its good for you.

The second wave is much worse than the first.
Your programs failed.
How can you all not see that?

I have made a very sound argument based on actual medical community research. You just don't understand it, preferring instead to flail away with your theories calling everyone a moron who disagrees with you. Plus periodic whining about how hard done you are projecting that onto other people like the "kids". Enough already this got stupid months ago. Time to stfu and realize this is all beyond your pay scale.

 

[gwb-trading]

Here is my last point of day.


If I you knew that deaths would be reaching all time highs...
That the high risk were at risk of running out of hospital space....
After the quiet summer we had...

Would you consider the last round of lockdown a success?

Of course not.
You all are supporting failed policies.

The lockdowns failed because we re-opened before there was adequate Contact Tracing and Testing in place -- as well as re-opening too quickly. Leading scientists involved in infectious diseases stated early on this would be the result in the United State and in many other countries. The results should not be a surprise when you fail to lockdown properly.

If we had proper leadership in the U.S. the lockdows would have done properly aligned with science and the best public health practices. Instead due to poor leadership we got the mess we have now.

 

[wrbtrader]

Has anyone at any time in this thread seen Jem address HOW we "take care of the high risk"?

How could half the population of the USA nearly be isolated from the rest.

He knows he can't answer this. I would suggest all ask him to give his plan with specifics. He just ignores every request for even the project outline.

As an experience PM, I can't see how it could be done without descending into a tragedy, others can't. But Jem has all here strung along by repeating this impossible thing.

I asked him once a long while back...he didn't answer. Soon after that, he publicly stated he doesn't read my message posts. I then put him on ignore but only after I saw him publicly use profanity lace insults toward other members.

Elderly needs care...they can not do it by themself which then implies someone must interact with them. That someone must be negative for Covid-19 and must have constant testing just like those NBA basketball players were given in the playoffs.

Those that tested positive...they were isolated in their hotel room and not allow to interact with other players.

Not sure why the same policy can not be apply to LTC facilities. Oh wait, there's no contact tracing, inadequate protection for the employees, no daily disinfection services, no bubble in which the employees do not leave the bubble...

That's why we can not isolate the high risk individuals that includes normal people with underlying medical conditions and they are not elderly.

wrbtrader