In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart

[wrbtrader]

How come you promote "natural herd immunity" so much?

It is a flawed policy that kills an excessive number of people while providing no economic advantage in battling COVID.

Even Sweden has backed away from this policy and is now using regional lockdowns and restrictions.

To me it had nothing to do with Sweden using a "No Lockdown" policy.

It was the constant promotion by specific individuals at this forum that then started stating Sweden Achieved Herd Immunity, United States Achieved Herd Immunity and so on.

In addition, the promotion of Sweden as the best model that United States and other countries should follow when in fact several other countries that used a "No Lockdown" policy are greatly outperforming Sweden in the fight against Covid-19.

The good thing is that they are no longer posting messages that Sweden, United States has achieved herd immunity although some still blame the Lockdown in United States when it was the Re-Opening Policy that was flawed / inappropriate for a Pandemic.

Most states did not follow the health guidelines for re-opening...they panic and just re-open without adequate contact tracing, without adequate testing, without using the lockdown to stockpile PPE / Beds / Ventilators / Without Face Mask Mandates...

Now United States has a clusterfuck of Covid-19 and Canada could be there soon if its not careful after letting down its guard over the summer via crowed restaurants, crowed bars / karoke / large social gatherings in homes and so on.

• Seriously, people in California, Texas are living among people that don't believe in wearing face masks (currently about 52% do not wear a face mask)...these two states are getting bent over and given a big one.

To beat Covid-19...they will need to get it to at least 90% face mask wear (not around their necks, not pulled down to talk to someone next to them) plus better social distancing...the latter many do not understand and ignore (e.g. parties in their home).

• 90% face mask wear is an objective (goal) set by the CDC but it can only be achieved by a National Mandate...currently President Trump screwed that up big time via not using a mandate to encourage people to wear their face mask.

Here in Québec, Canada...currently big jumps in the hospitalizations and that will result in a big problem for other types of patients that need medical care...as in more deaths.

• To me the key is not the infection numbers but the hospitalization numbers. Unfortunately they go hand to hand with each other.

Can't blame it on rallies and elections here in Québec, Canada. We didn't have any elections.

Our lockdowns were good (excellent) but the Re-Opening was poor, abused by bad characters (e.g. overcrowed Karoke bars) and community spread by those that needed to have people into their homes that were not part of the family in the home.

Twice I saw neighbours on my street with dinner parties in their home with at least 5 guests as the limit by health officials. This is something I do not understand...there should not be One outsider allowed in someone's home for a damn dinner party during a Pandemic without a vaccine.

Guess what, guests at a dinner party will not be wearing face masks.

Yet, the health officials here allowed private homes to have up to 5 guests. Now with the current worsening Covid-19 numbers. We now have new restrictions...guests not allowed.

Ridiculous and guest visitors should have never been allowed in homes in the first place during a Pandemic.

wrbtrader

 

[gwb-trading]

To me it had nothing to do with Sweden using a "No Lockdown" policy.

It was the constant promotion by specific individuals at this forum that then started stating Sweden Achieved Herd Immunity, United States Achieved Herd Immunity and so on.

In addition, the promotion of Sweden as the best model that United States and other countries should follow when in fact several other countries that used a "No Lockdown" policy are greatly outperforming Sweden in the fight against Covid-19.

The good thing is that they are no longer posting messages that Sweden, United States has achieved herd immunity although some still blame the Lockdown in United States when it was the Re-Opening Policy that was flawed / inappropriate for a Pandemic.

Most states did not follow the health guidelines for re-opening...they panic and just re-open without adequate contact tracing, without adequate testing, without using the lockdown to stockpile PPE / Beds / Ventilators / Without Face Mask Mandates...

Now United States has a clusterfuck of Covid-19 and Canada could be there soon if its not careful after letting down its guard over the summer via crowed restaurants, crowed bars / karoke / large social gatherings in homes and so on.

• Seriously, people in California, Texas are living among people that don't believe in wearing face masks (currently about 52% do not wear a face mask)...these two states are getting bent over and given a big one.

To beat Covid-19...they will need to get it to at least 90% face mask wear (not around their necks, not pulled down to talk to someone next to them) plus better social distancing...the latter many do not understand and ignore (e.g. parties in their home).

Here in Québec, Canada...big jumps in the hospitalizations and that will result in a big problem for other types of patients that need medical care...as in more deaths.

Can't blame it one rallies and elections here...we didn't have any elections. Lockdowns were good (excellent) but the Re-Opening was poor, abused by bad characters (e.g. overcrowed Karoke bars) and community spread by those that needed to have people into their homes that were not part of the family in the home.

Twice I saw neighbours on my street with dinner parties in their home with at least 5 guests as the limit by health officials. This is something I do not understand...there should not be One outsider allowed in someone's home for a damn dinner party. Guess what, guests at a dinner party will not be wearing face masks.

Yet, they allowed private homes to have up to 5 guests. Now with the current worsening Covid-19 numbers. We now have new restrictions...guests not allowed.

Ridiculous and should have never been allowed in the first place.

wrbtrader

"In addition, the promotion of Sweden as the best model that United States and other countries should follow when in fact several other countries that used a "No Lockdown" policy are greatly outperforming Sweden in the fight against Covid-19."

I believe you meant "Lockdown" policy.

 

[wrbtrader]

"In addition, the promotion of Sweden as the best model that United States and other countries should follow when in fact several other countries that used a "No Lockdown" policy are greatly outperforming Sweden in the fight against Covid-19."

I believe you meant "Lockdown" policy.

Actually, there are a few countries that did lockdown and outperforming Sweden although I put my emphasis on countries that did not lockdown and greatly outperforming Sweden after some here at this forum erroneously declared Sweden as the best model to follow.

The reason why I rarely mention the countries that did well from a lockdown because their culture didn't have a complex GDP, economy as the bigger countries. Thus, I think its better to mention the countries without lockdown that are still outperforming Sweden since Day 1...

• Taiwan and South Korea

Simply, a smaller pill for the naysayers to swallow.

wrbtrader

 

[gwb-trading]

Actually, there are a few countries that did lockdown and outperforming Sweden although I put my emphasis on countries that did not lockdown and greatly outperforming Sweden after some here at this forum erroneously declared Sweden as the best model to follow.

The reason why I rarely mention the countries that did well from a lockdown because their culture didn't have a complex GDP, economy as the bigger countries. Thus, I think its better to mention the countries without lockdown that are still outperforming Sweden since Day 1...

• Taiwan and South Korea

Simply, a smaller pill for the naysayers to swallow.

wrbtrader

You should note that South Korea and Taiwan did have national lockdown orders in available for immediate implementation as part of their national health plans. They locked down any locales and households with outbreaks. However because they performed full contact tracing and testing from Day 1 - they did not need to institute national lockdowns. The purpose of lockdowns involves 5 points; offloading hospitals, implementing full contact tracing, implementing full testing, reducing R to a minimal level, and reducing vector starting points to a tiny set. These countries did not need to lockdown nationally since they met all of these criteria from Day 1.

These are countries which actually had more advanced and stringent public health plans than Sweden. Comparing Sweden or Brazil which simply let the virus spread to Taiwan and South Korea which refused to let the virus spread at all ---- is simply not a realistic comparison.

 

[jem]

that is complete bullshit.
nothing about the lockdowns of the low risk worked... (after the first week or two to create hospital space.) Your lockdown bullshit did not extinguish or suppress the virus even in your great German approach.


yet... they created many deaths and suicides and endangered children all over the world.

If you have the hospital capacity... there is no data supporting the lockdown of the low risk.

note... I agree with much if not all of the approaches in South Korea and Taiwan

you are the won promoted failed lockdowns.

How come you promote "natural herd immunity" so much?

It is a flawed policy that kills an excessive number of people while providing no economic advantage in battling COVID.

Even Sweden has backed away from this policy and is now using regional lockdowns and restrictions.

 

[gwb-trading]

that is complete bullshit.
nothing about the lockdowns of the low risk worked... (after the first week or two to create hospital space.) Your lockdown bullshit did not extinguish or suppress the virus even in your great German approach.

yet... they created many deaths and suicides and endangered children all over the world.

If you have the hospital capacity... there is no data supporting the lockdown of the low risk.

Enjoy your insanity.

Fortunately most of the world is working to follow the best public health practices.

 

[jem]

Why can't you produce any data showing that locking down he low risk
has save lives overall and harm overall? (when there is hospital capacity?)

instead you post bullshit fear monger crap about Sweden.

 

[wrbtrader]

You should note that South Korea and Taiwan did have national lockdown orders in available for immediate implementation as part of their national health plans. They locked down any locales and households with outbreaks. However because they performed full contact tracing and testing from Day 1 - they did not need to institute national lockdowns. The purpose of lockdowns involves 5 points; offloading hospitals, implementing full contact tracing, implementing full testing, reducing R to a minimal level, and reducing vector starting points to a tiny set. These countries did not need to lockdown nationally since they met all of these criteria from Day 1.

These are countries which actually had more advanced and stringent public health plans than Sweden. Comparing Sweden or Brazil which simply let the virus spread to Taiwan and South Korea which refused to let the virus spread at all ---- is simply not a realistic comparison.

Correct about Taiwan and South Korea...they were prepared to do lockdowns but their excellent contact tracing, testing and face mask wearing with common sense social distancing...

They did not need to institute national lockdowns.

In fact, I remember South Korea had an outbreak in a nightclub (3 people I think)...they shut down that club only without shutting down any other business because they had excellent contact tracing...ensure those in contact were self isolating for the 14 day quarantine while everyone else / businesses continue functioning normally.

All the above happened within a few days of the person that was infected at a nightclub.

Yet, to be fair, countries like Taiwan and South Korea had a very good Pandemic plan prior to the Pandemic and they didn't make wearing a face mask a political statement because its something that was already built into the culture for +10 years.

As stated before in this thread and other threads...I lived in South Korea many many years ago. Their healthcare system and policies are designed to do very well in Epidemics / Pandemics along with very good management with respiratory illnesses from the growing pollution problems.

On top of that, the cultural element...the population knows how to navigate (continue working) without shutting down. They have a population that understands a Pandemic and they will do what it takes to not allow the virus to spread whereas other countries like Sweden / Brazil allowed it to spread but they're now discovering its too much for their population to manage.

The key to me seems to be to keep businesses / economy open while preventing the spread with stringent guidelines that all must follow. Those not able to follow the guidelines...remove them temporary once they've become infected.

Here in Canada and the United States...people are offended / become angry if asked to wear a face mask even though they're infected but not having any symptoms.

wrbtrader

 

[jem]

Germany Over 20 thousand new virus cases yesterday
and over 200 deaths.

Yeah lockdowns...
worked real well in GWBs model country.

Lockdowns failed in country after country
(other than to shift the virus in time...

 

[gwb-trading]

Sweden reports highest daily COVID-19 cases
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/sweden-reports-highest-daily-covid-19-cases/2043206

Sweden Friday reported 5,990 new COVID-19 cases, the highest daily figure since the start of the pandemic, according to its Health Agency.

The country also registered 42 virus-related deaths over the past 24 hours, bringing the total to 6,164.

The total number of coronavirus cases now stands at 177,355 in the country of 10 million.

Sweden, one of the few countries that did not introduce strict lockdown measures but went with public recommendations to stem the spread of the virus, last month announced new restrictions for Stockholm as infections continue to rise daily.

Authorities advised residents to refrain from indoor environments such as shops, malls, museums, libraries and gyms. But necessary visits to grocery stores and pharmacies can be made. The country also limited the public events to 300 people while banning the sale of alcohol after 10 pm.

Sweden has the highest number of COVID-19 cases and death rate among Nordic countries but those numbers are still lower than the worst-hit European nations, including Spain, Italy, France, and the UK.