In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart

[jem]

You want to know how fricken stupid you are..GWB.

On the page you posted...They have a chart..

I don't know where they get their numbers from because it does not match
the official numbers or the worldometer number but you can see there are days with zero
deaths or at least where the red line is touching zero deaths..
Which even if the line is too thick to know for sure...
it should tell you zero deaths on a particular day is not unlikely.

Why don't you use the data that comes directly from the government of Sweden...

It's absurd that people claim that Sweden has no recent COVID deaths when the country's government has been reporting deaths nearly every single day.

Lockdown-free Sweden ramps up coronavirus restrictions in its three biggest cities after seeing infections double in two weeks

• Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmo will face stricter coronavirus restrictions
• Sweden registered its highest death rate since the summer with 31 yesterday
• It registered 10,177 new coronavirus cases since its previous update on Friday

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tions-seeing-infections-double-two-weeks.html

 

[wrbtrader]

Why don't you use the data that comes directly from the government of Sweden...

It's absurd that people claim that Sweden has no recent COVID deaths when the country's government has been reporting deaths nearly every single day.

Lockdown-free Sweden ramps up coronavirus restrictions in its three biggest cities after seeing infections double in two weeks

• Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmo will face stricter coronavirus restrictions
• Sweden registered its highest death rate since the summer with 31 yesterday
• It registered 10,177 new coronavirus cases since its previous update on Friday

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tions-seeing-infections-double-two-weeks.html

gwb-trading,

Whomever you're debating with...keep in mind that they do not live in Sweden while they they are fixated on Sweden.

Personally, I've talked about France, Canada (Québec, Ontario), United States, South Korea, Taiwan, Brazil and a few other countries that are either have big problems or less problems than even Sweden in the performance against Covid-19.

With that said, of course Sweden has recently had Covid-19 Deaths and those that claim it has not are obviously living on another planet without any news nor internet.

Hopefully, that +billion dollar new expense is well applied to their infrastructure to prevent the number of hospitalizations from increasing...minimizing the chance of deaths.

• https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden

Keep in mind that Worldometers Sweden's data is usually a few days late in comparison to others although I don't know why. By end of week, Worldometers will have the data for October 31st, November 1st and November 2nd.

It should be within the recent average of 2 - 3 deaths per day.

wrbtrader

 

[gwb-trading]

gwb-trading,

Whomever you're debating with...keep in mind that they do not live in Sweden while they they are fixated on Sweden.

Personally, I've talked about France, Canada (Québec, Ontario), United States, South Korea, Taiwan, Brazil and a few other countries that are either have big problems or less problems than even Sweden in the performance against Covid-19.

With that said, of course Sweden has recently had Covid-19 Deaths and those that claim it has not are obviously living on another planet without any news nor internet.

Hopefully, that +billion dollar new expense is well applied to their infrastructure to prevent the number of hospitalizations from increasing...minimizing the chance of deaths.

• https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden

View attachment 243091

wrbtrader

The primary issue --- is that "natural herd immunity" advocates have been promoting Sweden as a great example of a country to follow.

While doing this they ignore two things:

• Sweden is nowhere near "natural herd immunity". Herd immunity requires that 60% to 70% of the population have anti-body immunity. Sweden -- even in urban areas -- is at below 10%.
  
• Sweden actually had many restrictions on sporting events and large gatherings. Many businesses shut down and schools closed for 3 months. Sweden was focused on voluntary measures rather than government mandated measures - since their legal system made government mandates difficult. Sweden is hardly an example of "no lockdowns" -- it might be a "lockdown light" -- the reality is that the country has now reverted to mandatory government restrictions following the rest of Europe,

"Natural herd immunity" advocates have used Sweden as their example to push a non-scientific policy which will cause many more COVID deaths and is not in the best interest of public health.

 

[wrbtrader]

The primary issue --- is that "natural herd immunity" advocates have been promoting Sweden as a great example of a country to follow.

While doing this they ignore two things:

• Sweden is nowhere near "natural herd immunity". Herd immunity requires that 60% to 70% of the population have anti-body immunity. Sweden -- even in urban areas -- is at below 10%.
  
• Sweden actually had many restrictions on sporting events and large gatherings. Many businesses shut down and schools closed for 3 months. Sweden was focused on voluntary measures rather than government mandated measures - since their legal system made government mandates difficult. Sweden is hardly an example of "no lockdowns" -- it might be a "lockdown light" -- the reality is that the country has now reverted to mandatory government restrictions following the rest of Europe,

"Natural herd immunity" advocates have used Sweden as their example to push a non-scientific policy which will cause many more COVID deaths and is not in the best interest of public health.

Yeah, I know.

I gave up debating with three of them about 2 months ago when they specifically stated, argue and defended that United States had achieved herd immunity or liked the posts of others that stated the herd immunity illusions about the United States.

Two of them became so mad in their defense that they begin calling names. I thought was odd considering they do not even live in Sweden...one admitted he/she has never been to Sweden.

Taiwan and South Korea has a much better response and performance against Covid-19 and South Korea did not lockdown. I still can't figure out why any of those idiots can not admit that other countries that did not lockdown (e.g. South Korea) has had a better performance than Sweden.

• Maybe the girls in Sweden look better...reason for their hilarious bias towards Sweden ?

The good thing, temporarily, they've not been stating recently that the United States has herd immunity. In fact, they've not recently stated the same too about Sweden.

• Actually, if Sweden had herd immunity...they would not be increasing their restrictions nor throwing another billion dollars at dealing with Covid-19.

We'll know when herd immunity is reached...there's an approved vaccine, approved therapeutics at the pharmacy without needing to overwhelm the hospitals, decreasing hospitalizations and society is OPEN (no lockdowns, no restrictions...wide open).

wrbtrader

 

[jem]

So Sweden is now an example of rational policy choices for you?

1. Natural herd immunity comes in a different levels than the math for vaccine immunity.
Nobody who thinks about it for 10 minutes could possibly argue it would be the exact same number.

Even if you used a vaccine where you vaccinated the most susceptible and those with the highest contacts... you would then have to adjust your math and realize immunity would come in at lower numbers.

That you refuse to acknowledge that shows what a close minded fool you are .

2. You still do incorporate T cell and B Cell immunity... only a moron like you pretends there is no science on the subject.

3. Lockdown light is the reality. I told you a million times that their model should be evaluated upon the time they locked down the old folks homes.
Clearly it was not zero lock down.

The primary issue --- is that "natural herd immunity" advocates have been promoting Sweden as a great example of a country to follow.

While doing this they ignore two things:

• Sweden is nowhere near "natural herd immunity". Herd immunity requires that 60% to 70% of the population have anti-body immunity. Sweden -- even in urban areas -- is at below 10%.
  
• Sweden actually had many restrictions on sporting events and large gatherings. Many businesses shut down and schools closed for 3 months. Sweden was focused on voluntary measures rather than government mandated measures - since their legal system made government mandates difficult. Sweden is hardly an example of "no lockdowns" -- it might be a "lockdown light" -- the reality is that the country has now reverted to mandatory government restrictions following the rest of Europe,

"Natural herd immunity" advocates have used Sweden as their example to push a non-scientific policy which will cause many more COVID deaths and is not in the best interest of public health.

 

[gwb-trading]

So Sweden is now an example of rational policy choices for you?

1. Natural herd immunity comes in a different levels than the math for vaccine immunity.
Nobody who thinks about it for 10 minutes could possibly argue it would be the exact same number.

Even if you used a vaccine where you vaccinated the most susceptible and those with the highest contacts... you would then have to adjust your math and realize immunity would come in at lower numbers.

That you refuse to acknowledge that shows what a close minded fool you are .

2. You still do incorporate T cell and B Cell immunity... only a moron like you pretends there is no science on the subject.

3. Lockdown light is the reality. I told you a million times that their model should be evaluated upon the time they locked down the old folks homes.
Clearly it was not zero lock down.

"1. Natural herd immunity comes in a different levels than the math for vaccine immunity."
What a joke. Follow the science and learn. "Natural herd immunity" (which never has worked) and vaccine-based immunity would involve the exact same percentage of the population numbers. There are clearly defined percentages of a population where herd immunity is effective based on the infectiousness of the disease.

"2. You still do incorporate T cell and B Cell immunity... only a moron like you pretends there is no science on the subject."
As stated by scientists there is no such think as T cell or B cell immunity. You are pushing fiction. T-Cells only reduce the possible severity of an infection -- they do not provide immunity.

"3. Lockdown light is the reality. I told you a million times that their model should be evaluated upon the time they locked down the old folks homes."
Lockdown light is not the same as locking down old folks home only -- as pushed by "natural herd immunity" advocates.

 

[jem]

I have presented you with myraid studies on these subjects.. you are such a liar.

This is from the New York Times.

1.

To achieve so-called herd immunity — the point at which the virus can no longer spread widely because there are not enough vulnerable humans — scientists have suggested that perhaps 70 percent of a given population must be immune, through vaccination or because they survived the infection.

Now some researchers are wrestling with a hopeful possibility. In interviews with The New York Times, more than a dozen scientists said that the threshold is likely to be much lower: just 50 percent, perhaps even less. If that’s true, then it may be possible to turn back the coronavirus more quickly than once thought.

The new estimates result from complicated statistical modeling of the pandemic, and the models have all taken divergent approaches, yielding inconsistent estimates. It is not certain that any community in the world has enough residents now immune to the virus to resist a second wave.


....

“That doesn’t happen in real life,” said Dr. Saad Omer, director of the Yale Institute for Global Health. “Herd immunity could vary from group to group, and subpopulation to subpopulation,” and even by postal codes, he said.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html



2.
Immune T Cells May Offer Lasting Protection Against COVID-19

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/...ay-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

Emerging Data Support Lasting COVID-19 Immunity Via T Cells

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/emerging-data-support-lasting-covid19-immunity-t-cells

 

[gwb-trading]

I have presented you with myraid studies on these subjects.. you are such a liar.

Her is where I prove you are a moron lair.
This is from the NY Times...

1.

To achieve so-called herd immunity — the point at which the virus can no longer spread widely because there are not enough vulnerable humans — scientists have suggested that perhaps 70 percent of a given population must be immune, through vaccination or because they survived the infection.

Now some researchers are wrestling with a hopeful possibility. In interviews with The New York Times, more than a dozen scientists said that the threshold is likely to be much lower: just 50 percent, perhaps even less. If that’s true, then it may be possible to turn back the coronavirus more quickly than once thought.

The new estimates result from complicated statistical modeling of the pandemic, and the models have all taken divergent approaches, yielding inconsistent estimates. It is not certain that any community in the world has enough residents now immune to the virus to resist a second wave.


....

“That doesn’t happen in real life,” said Dr. Saad Omer, director of the Yale Institute for Global Health. “Herd immunity could vary from group to group, and subpopulation to subpopulation,” and even by postal codes, he said.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html



2. From the

Immune T Cells May Offer Lasting Protection Against COVID-19

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/...ay-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

Emerging Data Support Lasting COVID-19 Immunity Via T Cells

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/emerging-data-support-lasting-covid19-immunity-t-cells

And as I responded earlier --- multiple further studies have debunked this stuff you are pushing -- including the proposals that herd immunity for COVID may be achieved with 43% of the population -- and that T-Cells provide any type of "immunity" for COVID-19. T-Cells merely assist in possibly reducing the severity of a COVID-19 infection; T-Cells do not provide immunity.

Just because a paper studies it or a newspaper makes one quote about something -- does not make it proven or true. Especially when it goes against the assertions by the majority of other medical scientists and other papers studying the same issue.

 

[jem]

And I asked you to post studies showing that T Cell immunity does not exist for Covid and you never have.

I ask you now to prove herd immunity would not come in at different levels for different populations in real life.

And as I responded earlier --- multiple further studies have debunked this stuff you are pushing -- including the proposals that herd immunity for COVID may be achieved with 43% of the population -- and that T-Cells provide any type of "immunity" for COVID-19. T-Cells merely assist in possibly reducing the severity of a COVID-19 infection; T-Cells do not provide immunity.

Just because a paper studies it or a newspaper makes one quote about something -- does not make it proven or true. Especially when it goes against the assertions by the majority of other medical scientists and other papers studying the same issue.

 

[wrbtrader]

In Sweden, a ‘very serious’ resurgence of coronavirus and a grim winter ahead

Swedes face a new wave of restrictions after daily coronavirus cases hit a record

Sweden's Prime Minister Stefan Lofven speaks during the government's press conference regarding the coronavirus disease outbreak, in Stockholm, Sweden April 22, 2020. Photo by TT News Agency/Anders Wiklund via REUTERS

(Bloomberg) — Swedes face a new wave of restrictions after daily coronavirus cases hit a record, with the government warning of a grim winter ahead.

Prime Minister Stefan Lofven, speaking to reporters on Tuesday, said his country is facing a “very serious situation” that requires tougher measures if the virus is to be fought back.

The resurgence of Covid-19 across Europe has caught the region off guard after a summer that left many countries assuming they’d brought the virus under control. But as citizens grew complacent and temperatures dropped, the pandemic has returned with a vengeance.

Lofven warned that the latest development is putting Sweden’s health-care system under pressure, as more intensive care beds get filled.

“The brief respite that we got during the summer is over,” he said. “How we act now will determine what kind of Christmas we will be able to celebrate, and who will be able to take part.”

Sweden, which has shunned lockdowns throughout the pandemic, on Tuesday registered 10,177 new coronavirus cases, recorded since its previous update on Friday, Health Agency statistics showed.

As of Tuesday, a total of 134,532 Swedes had been infected with the virus, with 5,969 deaths.

Cases in the Nordic country, which does not publish updated COVID-19 data over the weekend and Mondays, have risen sharply in recent weeks, repeatedly hitting daily records last week.

The new measures announced on Tuesday require Swedes to Avoid physical contact with people besides those with whom they share a home; avoid indoor spaces in which crowds can form; avoid parties, weddings, funerals and similar events; and employers should ensure that staff who can work from home do so.

-------

I've been stating since the start of the Pandemic that culturally...some countries will perform better than others because their population / habits impacts greatly on the decision about Lockdowns, No Lockdowns or targeted restrictions (measures).

In Sweden, people typically have no problems being indoors or restricted to indoors, they don't freak out about not being able to have large gatherings and they have more trust in their government.

Thus, whatever targeted restrictions the health officials in Sweden place on their citizens...

They are ok with it just like health officials in South Korea making face mask wear a mandate...the people in those countries are OK with it because its already a cultural habit to wear face masks due to the population problems.

In contrast, its the countries like Italy, Germany, Spain, France, United States that people will reject / protest any mandates...its just not in the DNA like it is in countries like South Korea / Taiwan / Sweden to accepts any type of restrictions.

wrbtrader