Am curious what "admission" you refer to here. Probably another lie.
In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart
- Thread starter wildchild
- Start date
Am curious what "admission" you refer to here. Probably another lie.
No reasonable facts and data?
The ultimate stats to judge the current success in real time is current Covid daily deaths and excess deaths. Are people currently dying from Covid and for context are they dying in amounts larger than the normal amounts of deaths....
Sweden's current data is amazing... they are currently having zero daily covid deaths on some days.
They currently are experiencing zero excess deaths as a country.
And the propagandista (like you) are out pushing bullshit about their high deaths in old folks homes which mostly happened before they locked them down.
And you find idiot "expert" economists who say they gained nothing.
but in the recent article from traderob gave us ...
"And what of the costs? Sweden will not be unscathed by the global recession.Its GDP is expected to decline by 5.3 per cent this year. But GDP is expected to fall by 8.7 per cent in the Eurozone, by 9.7 per cent in Britain and by more than 10 per cent in Italy, France and Spain. Sweden has not put its children’s education on hold. It has not put its citizens under soul-sapping house arrest. If a vaccine goes into production by autumn, the Swedes will look reckless. But that is not going to happen - and winter is coming."
The ultimate stats to judge the current success in real time is current Covid daily deaths and excess deaths. Are people currently dying from Covid and for context are they dying in amounts larger than the normal amounts of deaths....
Sweden's current data is amazing... they are currently having zero daily covid deaths on some days.
They currently are experiencing zero excess deaths as a country.
And the propagandista (like you) are out pushing bullshit about their high deaths in old folks homes which mostly happened before they locked them down.
And you find idiot "expert" economists who say they gained nothing.
but in the recent article from traderob gave us ...
"And what of the costs? Sweden will not be unscathed by the global recession.Its GDP is expected to decline by 5.3 per cent this year. But GDP is expected to fall by 8.7 per cent in the Eurozone, by 9.7 per cent in Britain and by more than 10 per cent in Italy, France and Spain. Sweden has not put its children’s education on hold. It has not put its citizens under soul-sapping house arrest. If a vaccine goes into production by autumn, the Swedes will look reckless. But that is not going to happen - and winter is coming."
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Brazil numbers are really starting to taper off now in a big way. The approach by Sweden, Brazil and some areas of the US appears to me to be the proper approach for long term containment.
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This is my response to the morons who go for insults and attacks without making arguments based on facts and data.. Remember right now Sweden is at zero excess deaths.
(here is traderobs post from a few pages ago.)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...along/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr
If there is a second wave of Covid, the Swedish approach will have been right all along
Not going into lockdown was described as “a mad experiment” at the time, but Sweden can look to the winter with less trepidation than most
CHRISTOPHER SNOWDON11 July 2020 • 6:00pm
There have been times during this pandemic that I’ve felt as if my memory is playing tricks on me. I’m sure I remember scientists telling us that a second wave was inevitable. I could have sworn I saw a graph at the press briefings showing a scary bell curve of infections in the spring and an even scarier one in the winter. I’m sure I heard experts explaining that the only way COVID-19 would disappear would be when herd immunity was achieved, either through natural antibodies or vaccination.
Official documents reassure me that I am not going mad. The minutes from a Sage meeting in March say: “Sage was unanimous that measures seeking to completely suppress the spread of Covid-19 will cause a second peak.” As far as I can tell, this is still their view. Suppressing a wintry virus during the sunniest spring on record could turn out to be no great achievement. The worst may be yet to come.
One country can look to the winter with less trepidation than most. Last week, a study suggested that 30 per cent of Swedes have built up immunity to the virus. It would help explain why Covid-19 has been fizzling out in Sweden. If a measure of herd immunity also helps them avoid the second wave, Sweden’s take-it-on-the-chin approach will be vindicated.
Not going into lockdown was described as “a mad experiment” by Marcus Carlsson of Lund University in March. Dr Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér of Sweden’s Karolinska Institute accused the government of “leading us to catastrophe”, and predicted that the healthcare system would collapse unless a lockdown was introduced. Every model predicted an exponential rise in infections.
With half of humanity living under lockdown, photos of Swedes socialising in bars and restaurants seemed like communiqués from another dimension. Aside from a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, life carried on as normal. Children aged under 16 went to school. No one wore a mask. This, surely, was the calm before a terrible storm.
The catastrophe never arrived. As in most other European countries, Sweden saw a peak in Covid-19 deaths in the first half of April followed by a steady decline. Shown on a graph, the pattern of mortality is indistinguishable from that of many countries that locked down. Its daily death toll rarely exceeded double figures and has been below 30 since mid-June. As in Britain, half the deaths were in care homes and two-thirds of those who died were aged 80 or over.
Once it became clear that their apocalyptic prophecy had failed, critics of the Swedish approach turned to post hoc rationalisation. They cited low population density and a high rate of single person households as the explanation for Sweden’s lucky escape. Some claimed that social distancing was a natural part of Swedish culture or that Swedes did not talk enough for virus droplets to be transmitted. Some of this was true and much of it was nonsense, but none of it had been mentioned in March when Sweden was said to be doomed.
It is now considered gauche to compare Sweden to Britain, Italy, Spain or any other country that had a higher death rate. You are only allowed to compare it to its immediate neighbours where the death rate is lower. Mention the UK or, heaven forbid, Belgium (which locked down a week before the UK and has the highest COVID-19 death rate in the world) and you will be told that they should have locked down sooner. The proposition becomes unfalsifiable. Heads they win, tails you lose.
The goalposts have shifted. The purpose of lockdowns is no longer to protect health systems, but to prevent death at any cost. New Zealand has managed to eradicate the virus for the time being, but only by kissing goodbye to its biggest export industry – tourism – which sustains ten per cent of its economy and fourteen per cent of its workforce. Isolated from the rest of the world, it is a prisoner to a vaccine that may never be found.
Australia thought it had beaten the virus, but parts of Victoria are back under lockdown after new cases were found. There have been resurgences in the United States, Israel and South Africa, to name but three. Winning the battle against the first wave may prove to be like the invasion of Iraq, merely a prelude to a long war of attrition that wastes more money and lives.
If there is hope of avoiding a second wave, it lies in contact tracing, but the NHS Test and Trace remains unproven in summer, let alone winter, and businesses will still be faced with crippling social distancing rules and – worst of all – the public’s fear of going out. For all the talk of ‘Super Saturday’, only five per cent of us went to the pub last weekend. A recent survey found that only 21 per cent of us would be comfortable eating in a restaurant.
And what of the costs? Sweden will not be unscathed by the global recession.Its GDP is expected to decline by 5.3 per cent this year. But GDP is expected to fall by 8.7 per cent in the Eurozone, by 9.7 per cent in Britain and by more than 10 per cent in Italy, France and Spain. Sweden has not put its children’s education on hold. It has not put its citizens under soul-sapping house arrest. If a vaccine goes into production by autumn, the Swedes will look reckless. But that is not going to happen - and winter is coming
(here is traderobs post from a few pages ago.)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...along/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr
If there is a second wave of Covid, the Swedish approach will have been right all along
Not going into lockdown was described as “a mad experiment” at the time, but Sweden can look to the winter with less trepidation than most
CHRISTOPHER SNOWDON11 July 2020 • 6:00pm
There have been times during this pandemic that I’ve felt as if my memory is playing tricks on me. I’m sure I remember scientists telling us that a second wave was inevitable. I could have sworn I saw a graph at the press briefings showing a scary bell curve of infections in the spring and an even scarier one in the winter. I’m sure I heard experts explaining that the only way COVID-19 would disappear would be when herd immunity was achieved, either through natural antibodies or vaccination.
Official documents reassure me that I am not going mad. The minutes from a Sage meeting in March say: “Sage was unanimous that measures seeking to completely suppress the spread of Covid-19 will cause a second peak.” As far as I can tell, this is still their view. Suppressing a wintry virus during the sunniest spring on record could turn out to be no great achievement. The worst may be yet to come.
One country can look to the winter with less trepidation than most. Last week, a study suggested that 30 per cent of Swedes have built up immunity to the virus. It would help explain why Covid-19 has been fizzling out in Sweden. If a measure of herd immunity also helps them avoid the second wave, Sweden’s take-it-on-the-chin approach will be vindicated.
Not going into lockdown was described as “a mad experiment” by Marcus Carlsson of Lund University in March. Dr Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér of Sweden’s Karolinska Institute accused the government of “leading us to catastrophe”, and predicted that the healthcare system would collapse unless a lockdown was introduced. Every model predicted an exponential rise in infections.
With half of humanity living under lockdown, photos of Swedes socialising in bars and restaurants seemed like communiqués from another dimension. Aside from a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, life carried on as normal. Children aged under 16 went to school. No one wore a mask. This, surely, was the calm before a terrible storm.
The catastrophe never arrived. As in most other European countries, Sweden saw a peak in Covid-19 deaths in the first half of April followed by a steady decline. Shown on a graph, the pattern of mortality is indistinguishable from that of many countries that locked down. Its daily death toll rarely exceeded double figures and has been below 30 since mid-June. As in Britain, half the deaths were in care homes and two-thirds of those who died were aged 80 or over.
Once it became clear that their apocalyptic prophecy had failed, critics of the Swedish approach turned to post hoc rationalisation. They cited low population density and a high rate of single person households as the explanation for Sweden’s lucky escape. Some claimed that social distancing was a natural part of Swedish culture or that Swedes did not talk enough for virus droplets to be transmitted. Some of this was true and much of it was nonsense, but none of it had been mentioned in March when Sweden was said to be doomed.
It is now considered gauche to compare Sweden to Britain, Italy, Spain or any other country that had a higher death rate. You are only allowed to compare it to its immediate neighbours where the death rate is lower. Mention the UK or, heaven forbid, Belgium (which locked down a week before the UK and has the highest COVID-19 death rate in the world) and you will be told that they should have locked down sooner. The proposition becomes unfalsifiable. Heads they win, tails you lose.
The goalposts have shifted. The purpose of lockdowns is no longer to protect health systems, but to prevent death at any cost. New Zealand has managed to eradicate the virus for the time being, but only by kissing goodbye to its biggest export industry – tourism – which sustains ten per cent of its economy and fourteen per cent of its workforce. Isolated from the rest of the world, it is a prisoner to a vaccine that may never be found.
Australia thought it had beaten the virus, but parts of Victoria are back under lockdown after new cases were found. There have been resurgences in the United States, Israel and South Africa, to name but three. Winning the battle against the first wave may prove to be like the invasion of Iraq, merely a prelude to a long war of attrition that wastes more money and lives.
If there is hope of avoiding a second wave, it lies in contact tracing, but the NHS Test and Trace remains unproven in summer, let alone winter, and businesses will still be faced with crippling social distancing rules and – worst of all – the public’s fear of going out. For all the talk of ‘Super Saturday’, only five per cent of us went to the pub last weekend. A recent survey found that only 21 per cent of us would be comfortable eating in a restaurant.
And what of the costs? Sweden will not be unscathed by the global recession.Its GDP is expected to decline by 5.3 per cent this year. But GDP is expected to fall by 8.7 per cent in the Eurozone, by 9.7 per cent in Britain and by more than 10 per cent in Italy, France and Spain. Sweden has not put its children’s education on hold. It has not put its citizens under soul-sapping house arrest. If a vaccine goes into production by autumn, the Swedes will look reckless. But that is not going to happen - and winter is coming
You complain about "personal attacks" while pushing and pushing and pushing a positively lethal idiocy which would actually kill real people. You have to win somehow, you have to keep broadcasting your insane garbage like there is a worm in your brain.
The prime minister of Sweden has launched an enquiry on the high deaths. This is certainly because of what happened AFTER they locked down but were inadequately prepared in multiple ways.
Don't you dare bleat about personal attacks when you are carelessly harming people with this sustained garbage stream. Also repeating back your own words is not a personal attack you fart knuckle.
another example of an argument with no data.. by bugen.
You just don't manifest any hint of understanding or acknowledging that public policy involves the balancing of and weighing of harms.
Left turns cause many deaths... We could ban all left turns?
We could ban all driving over 30 miles an hour to save lives... but we don't.
Society makes choices...
Does your preferred choice save lives overall?
Does you preferred choice save harm and overall damage?
You have not even tried to show your preferred method of lockdown saves lives overall.
(have you even posted a preferred method... or do you just make amorphous arguments and cast insults the whole time)
You just don't manifest any hint of understanding or acknowledging that public policy involves the balancing of and weighing of harms.
Left turns cause many deaths... We could ban all left turns?
We could ban all driving over 30 miles an hour to save lives... but we don't.
Society makes choices...
Does your preferred choice save lives overall?
Does you preferred choice save harm and overall damage?
You have not even tried to show your preferred method of lockdown saves lives overall.
(have you even posted a preferred method... or do you just make amorphous arguments and cast insults the whole time)
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Bla bla bla from the fart knuckle.
The data is your entire proposition falls at the starting gate.
Your antisocial and amoral behavior is appalling and in person you would not dare to just bombard people. A six year old girl would have given you the I'll fucking slap you ya cunt look at this stage.
You chose a small safe life. Many do but the consequence of being big on ET for 20 years but not in life is you clearly don't have the practical smarts to run a fucking banana stand, never mind plan a pandemic response.
You are now making shit up about my behavior.
I wear a mask where required you moron.
I have a mask with me at all times.
I have to wear a mask at the gym where I am going right now after the trading day ends in a few minutes. I hate masks but.. there are old people there when I go... lunch time in NY or right after the close of trading as I am about to do.
So, I think requiring a mask is OK during the day.
I think old people should stay out of the guy before and after San Diego work hours.
All I ask is for facts showing the shutdown of the low risk group saves harm.
All you bring is bullshit and insults.
Why are you wasting your time here?
You have been unwilling to proffer any data or science on this for weeks.
Just show us a shut down of the low risk group saves lives and harm?
I wear a mask where required you moron.
I have a mask with me at all times.
I have to wear a mask at the gym where I am going right now after the trading day ends in a few minutes. I hate masks but.. there are old people there when I go... lunch time in NY or right after the close of trading as I am about to do.
So, I think requiring a mask is OK during the day.
I think old people should stay out of the guy before and after San Diego work hours.
All I ask is for facts showing the shutdown of the low risk group saves harm.
All you bring is bullshit and insults.
Why are you wasting your time here?
You have been unwilling to proffer any data or science on this for weeks.
Just show us a shut down of the low risk group saves lives and harm?
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