In Finding a Mentor

[duhmentor]

Quote from Redneck trader:

Duhmentor

With all do respect (because I like and agree with most everything you post) but….


Is not your first sentence in direct conflict with your last – if not then you should be able to help/ force/ guide another to do the work involved - no?

All I can do is offer to help. The lead a horse to water thing. I can no more force a person than I can force the market.

And (again I’m just curious)..

How did you come about learning how others learn – so you’re confident to say you can mentor someone successfully?

Also by willingly taking on the responsibility of mentoring someone – are /can you really guarantee they will get it – guarantee them success?

I cannot guarantee success. I was fortunate to find a mentor online when I was struggling. This person helped me by asking one question over and over. “Why did you do that?”

I never met my mentor. I have no idea if it’s a he or a she. I offered to accept collect calls or skype but was told that writing my thoughts down would be more effective.

I was never really asked how I traded, only if I had a written plan and if I followed it. And of course Why?

The process took over a year. Many e-mails and much soul seaching. For myself it was successful.

Also (more curiosity)

How do you get someone to overcome the internal (psychological) road blocks – so they take the appropriate actions regardless of what their thoughts are telling them? (taking all signals, and exiting all stop losses immediately – come to mind)

Short of sitting there and doing the actual trading for someone – I do not know how one person can “force” another to trade properly, or….

Really help/ force/ guide another to do anything else for that matter – especially if that person is unable to make their self it do it in the first place …(whatever it is)…..

To trade successfully you have to over come the internal road blocks. How that is accomplished will be different for each individual. The benefit of having a mentor, for myself at least, was accepting responsibility for my actions and having to justify them to someone else.

Sure some folks are closer to getting it (trading properly) than others, and may need just a little nudge in the right direction…


But then I know of some who really want to trade - but can not for the life of them - take the appropriate action when its required – consequently they’ve quit trading….

What specifically would you do for the folks in this category?

If the horse dies of thirst there isn’t much you can do. I once bought a horse that wouldn’t drink out of a stream. I solved the problem by cutting the bottom out of a bucket and putting it in the stream. After a couple days I took the bucket away. I guess I changed the horse’s belief system.

The bucket in the case of a trader is sym trading. I realize that it’s not the same as trading your own money but it will save your account. If you can’t follow your trading system on a sym you don’t have a chance with a funded account.

Again – I am not taking you to task (though I admit it appears so) – I am trying to expand my knowledge and clear up some questions]




I’ve long maintained one person does not know specifically how another learns..., and/ or one person can not make another do something they psychologically can’t

If my stance is wrong then I must own up to that fact……

I don’t mind being taken to task. It keeps me honest. I also have much to learn and one of the best ways is to have to explain myself.

Every individual learns differently, I can only show you the path I took. If it is of some use to others, saves them a few steps, then I will have contributed something. If not then at least I made an attempt.

I don’t think there is a right or wrong stance, only what we believe to be right or wrong.

 

[Now is Now]

JRL,

In addition to absorbing everything Ammo, Redneck, Big Arrow et al have offered to you...you may not realize it but your best mentor could be your wife...

Sounds crazy...no, everyday she is confronted with a different set of tasks ( market behaviour) and has to approach it with the absolute best knowledge available to her (market set up) recognizing that there is potentil risk in every procedure (trade) she takes to heal the patient (profit)...does not succeed every time (loss)....but then moves on to the next patient (trade) repeat initial functions and responds......

As a doctor,especially if it is ER she will have developed a steel trap mind to function....

You have to apply yourself to trading in the same manner...

Sorry if it is long winded




NiN

Let me know when the first hurricane hits..so I can make arrangements here:eek:

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from JRL:

Hi All,

In reading a lot of the "Newbie FAQ" types of threads, I hear a lot of people talking about the importance of having a mentor. Seems reasonable.

Just wondering what form of mentorship that you folks all used; was it a prop firm, was it a friend, was it a colleague, was it a stranger, etc. It'd be nice to hear of peoples' experiences in finding, dealing with, and eventually "leaving the nest", with respect to mentorships.

Thanks in advance.

I knew nothing of investing/trading until I was about 24 or 25.

My dept head at college read me the WSJ for an hour and explained investing as the major income stream for faculty.

A colleague at IBM and I shared plotting stocks for position trading (10% every 6 to 8 days). By sharing we always had a series of stocks to sequence through.

I did an outline on a sheet of paper that distilled the essentials for both being mentored and mentoring.

Investing or trading works out the same way. There is only one principle.

All trading uses the same brain functions and it narrows down to three: spatial, shapes and movement.

The person who spoke of contractors put trading in its place correctly: it is a trade and how trades are learned applies.

There is not much knowledge required with respect to trading and few people understand the content of the knowledge. The knowledge is supplied from the mind when needed as a way to match what is sensed. The knowledge is like any other kind of knowledge.

To scope and bound both my path through becoming expert and how mentoring people to expert is done took one sheet of paper, 15 minutes and making a cup of instant coffee, just after I read thread.

The refinements of being really superior come from teaching others. Nothing original was required in any way.

 

[Redneck]

OP,

With the exception of a very few posters here – you Sir have a gold mine – I wish you all the success you desire….


Bigarrow & Myshkin

Thank You Both Very Kindly


Duhmentor

You are Golden Sir – as always



Mentoring

I absolutely positively agree “if” a person starting out can find an experienced trader – whose way of trading mirrors a way that the newer trader can understand… can easily grasp…, will ultimately adopt …. And the experienced trader is willing to share and be patient – then this is absolutely the pathway to very quick success…

But I think we would all agree that is a very huge “if” – especially if you don’t live in Chicago/ New York or have connections – which I am willing to bet most of us don’t


Networking

Having a network of folks is also a great idea – that is if (there’s that if again) you can find other traders without the ego, but instead possess a certain level of maturity & professionalism – I tried to find this and failed… So now I go it alone… and hang out here on occasion..


The bouncing of ideas around personally wouldn’t gain me much – because the way I trade is so pathetically simple it isn’t even funny… But to be able to enjoy in another’s success, or talk shop and actually have someone else understand what I’m saying – that would be great (my wife God lover her just looks at me like I’m from another planet when I talk about the stuff rambling in my head)..

So if all the members could set aside their egos, set aside the BS… and just focus on excellence – excellence for them selves, and excellence for each other – what an absolute trading tour de force that would be…




On a separate and personal note…

Way back when I started out learning to trade – I couldn’t get someone to answer any of my questions to save my butt.

From the supposed great traders/ experts – I would either get treated like an imbecile…. receive generalized answer – which were of no real use…. or get completely ignored….

It was during this period I made a commitment to myself that if I ever succeeded – I would stick it up their collective rear ends.


Fast forward to about a year ago I joined here – ever since I’ve really tried to keep “most” things I post very clear and concise – I try to help out where I can - although I fully admit I don’t know it all by a long shot – and I will never put another person down who is trying to learn – no matter how basic the question… And yes sometimes I add in some goofy ass humor because that’s just me…

But I will never purposely give an ambiguous / convoluted / generalized answer – we traders must always deal/ live/ trade in specifics – never ambiguities

Furthermore

I get amused (mildly so) by the amount of ego some so called “traders/ experts” exhibit on this forum, or in person – and I would say this to that….


I go up against the best traders every day – I win more than I lose – sans your ego or mine…

Never shall I ask you for quarter – nor ever will I give you any


But I will always do my dead level best to help out a colleague / newer trader whenever I can


Humbly & Respectfully

RN

 

[shitzfagiggles]

Quote from jack hershey:

I knew nothing of investing/trading until I was about 24 or 25.

You still know nothing because you haven't got the guts to trade your method because it doesn't work.

You are not a mentor, you are a an ego that has cost many people their hard earned money.. that's right.. just to satisy your fragile ego you hurt people so you could feel better about being a failure.. in short Jack you go to the grave having detracted, not contributed to humanity!

 

[Now is Now]

Quote from Redneck trader:




[

So if all the members could set aside their egos, set aside the BS… and just focus on excellence – excellence for them selves, and excellence for each other – what an absolute trading tour de force that would be…

AMEN!!!!...

.'If' is the most powerful word in the English dictionary...Disraeli

Wouldn't it be a buzz if this could actually happen!!!


NiN

 

[JRL]

Quote from Redneck trader:



But I will always do my dead level best to help out a colleague / newer trader whenever I can


Humbly & Respectfully

RN

What's your setup, RN?

Which software & broker do you use? How long have you been trading alone for? Were you ever with a prop or brokerage firm?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Redneck]

Quote from JRL:

What's your setup, RN?

Which software & broker do you use? How long have you been trading alone for? Were you ever with a prop or brokerage firm?

Thanks in advance.

JRL,

I will answer all your questions if you first answer mine – please


How is me answering going to help you learn to trade / or trade any better?

(and btw I am not jacking you around – There’s a very important concept here)




I should add…

I’ve already answered most of these on other threads – but I will again no matter how you respond

And….

Please know if the best trader in the world offered me his/ her system – I would turn them down flat… Not because I think I’m that much better – I lose and win like every other trader…

But because I own my trading approach/ methodology – I know it inside and out... because I built it from the ground up.

I don’t own theirs, and consequently I would never know if/ when theirs was working as advertised – or I was losing money needlessly


Food for Thought Sir


And like I said I will answer your questions – no matter how you respond…

RN

 

[shitzfagiggles]

Quote from jack hershey:

I knew nothing of investing/trading until I was about 24 or 25.

You know nothing at 80

 

[JRL]

Quote from Redneck trader:

JRL,

I will answer all your questions if you first answer mine – please

How is me answering going to help you learn to trade / or trade any better?

(and btw I am not jacking you around – There’s a very important concept here)

Please know if the best trader in the world offered me his/ her system – I would turn them down flat… Not because I think I’m that much better – I lose and win like every other trader…

But because I own my trading approach/ methodology – I know it inside and out... because I built it from the ground up.

I wasn't asking for your approach/methodology. I was simply asking which broker & software you use to trade.

Honestly, I'm having a difficult time with choosing a setup! I'm Canadian, aren't working with a huge base, and just don't really know which brokerage house I should be a customer of, which software I should use to follow the market daily, whether or not a Level II is required, etc.

And I'm asking you this because you come across as a guy who's had success yet has stayed grounded, which I respect.

I'm just having a tough time understanding what exactly I need in the way of feeds, accounts, etc. Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated! I'm not asking for any specific methods or setups of trading, just what you stare at all day to help with making trading decisions!

Cheers