In Finding a Mentor

Quote from JRL:

Hi All,

In reading a lot of the "Newbie FAQ" types of threads, I hear a lot of people talking about the importance of having a mentor. Seems reasonable.

Just wondering what form of mentorship that you folks all used; was it a prop firm, was it a friend, was it a colleague, was it a stranger, etc. It'd be nice to hear of peoples' experiences in finding, dealing with, and eventually "leaving the nest", with respect to mentorships.

Thanks in advance.
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First, find yourself couple of simple strategies, there are hundreds of them available for free. Then select couple that you believe in.

Then write down a trading plan based on those strategies.
Get yourself a software with playback function so you can replay charts and backtest the strategies that way. It will speed up your learning curve.

Get yourself a journal and start taking notes about the trades, and about how you felt, etc. In a couple of weeks you can backtest well over 100 trades and you’ll have a lots of statistical data both about the trading strategies and most importantly about yourself.

Then when you begin to learn about yourself, you can start adjusting the trading strategies to fit your personality, because every successful trader eventfully creates his own system that he/she is comfortable with. There are successful mentors that will help you make you money, but if you’re not comfortable trading their methods, then you won’t stick to what they are preaching.

Most importantly from your journal you’ll start learning about yourself, and you’ll start to see patterns in your thinking and behavior which are detrimental to your trading. You have to work on yourself, that’s where the biggest edge is.

This method of learning works, but unfortunately it takes hard work, it is a slow process and along the way isn’t anyone to blame apart from yourself. Successful trading is a lonely business full of contradictions. You have to learn to think for yourself.

Sure there are some good mentors around, but most successful traders early realize that people want to be given buy and sell signals, and that the desire for mentorship stems from greed to make money quickly rather than from the willingness to be patient and learn how to trade. As long as people keep their focus on making money rather than the process of learning to trade, they’re doomed to fail, even if they are lucky enough to have outstanding mentors.

Having a mentor can be very beneficial, as well as very damaging. Become your own mentor. :)
 
there always has been a lot of manipulation in the markets, you can't see it but you know it's there, it has multiplied to the nth in the last 20 years,this is where i say ,most don't have a clue,the onus falls on you ,that little 1 lot scenario sounds trivial but if you learn it now as a basic and i mean drill it into your psyche ,your psyche is your holy grail, ( you will eventually find out that it is very easy to make money , it is very hard to hang on to it and not give it back) it will save u from giving back millions over the course of your trading carreer that can't be taught,you must train yourself .. heres a post tonight of a guy with a mentor http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190749
 
This thread is going in the wrong direction. I figure I'll tell a bit about my story to try and make my question a bit more defined.

Long story short, 27 years old, accounting background, always interested in the markets. Bought some positions last year, in 11 different stocks, with a bottom fishing strategy, and, as of today, am up 188% year-over-year. Now, I'm not so naive to think that these kinds of results are what's to be expected. There was blood on the streets everywhere a year ago, and the strategy that I used last year (bottom fishing) was perfect.

I now find myself in a unique situation; since January, I've taken a leave from my job and have moved down to Grenada (Caribbean), to be with my wife while she attends medical school here until May. So, I essentially have 5 months with no time commitments, no tasks to get done, nothing. It's a nice change. :cool:

What I'm trying to do is use this "downtime" as effectively as possible with respect to learning how to become a successful trader. My wife's quest to become a doctor will either be moving us to Detroit or New York in August, for another 2 years, and then who the heck knows after that (she'll then be doing her residency). If I'm able to make it as a trader, I'm not confined to a single city, a single job, etc. I have freedom of destination.

So, what I've started doing, as of last Monday, is pick a specific stock and follow its movements all day. Watch how it reacts to news, watch how it moves relative to the Dow, the S&P, and other members in its sector. Watch its internals. Document all of these observations on a journal. That's what I've been doing. Week II starts on Monday. I'm watching its movement on Google Finance, while streaming Bloomberg TV in the background, and also spending a great deal of time here on ET.

Anyway - in regards to finding a mentor - I'm asking this because I'm assuming that trading becomes a lot more difficult when considering shorter-term swing trades, and especially intraday trades, relative to the positions which I took last year. This is what I'm trying to learn - more of the shorter-term stuff. Initial goal is to start with swing trades, and then move to intraday's once proficiency has been establsihed.

I guess what I'm wondering is this: am I doing it right? Is there a better way to learn and understand the ways to successful shorter-term trading than what I'm doing now? I haven't yet signed up for a simulator account, but I've downloaded Ninja Trader and will probably be doing a demo acccount with AMP.

Thanks for taking the time to read, and any sort of advice/suggestions/supprt that you'd care to provide is appreciated.
 
toss 3500 in an acct at think or swim, there free classes and distiguished guests are the top in the business,during the day they have a live chartist,explaining the underlying indicators,its free for all clients
 
JRL

You've gotten some good answers from both sides of the fence. One side believes you can do it yourself and that mentors are useless or at the best suspect. The otherside believes mentors are useful for teaching the process of trading -- not handing over a winning system -- but teaching process and giving you the background necesarry to move forward. These environments allow you to meet others who at the least share the same passion or at best, are profitable and wouldn't mind showing you a few things. Mentoring and classroom time encourages synergy. Not a bad thing compared to doing it yourself. This board is a form of that.

There have been several roadmaps laid out for doing it yourself. One from ammo, another one from Mr Consistent for ways to teach yourself. Those appear to be approaches they have traught themselves. Learn from them. The other approach has been laid out as well..places to visit and ways to approach learning about the markets and short term trading. Unfortunately this board is not the place to get a definitive answer to your question. If the thread isn't answering your question then there perhaps is not a baclk/white answer because both sides have been given.

Are you doign it right? Is there a better way to do it right? Like anything in the market, the answer is yes and no. It depends on what you believe and what your situation is. If you believe that you can do it then go for it. That would be yes. You're doing the right thing..reading the boards (although I would argue that's a form of mentoring but still piece meal), reading books and so on. If you believe that trading like anything is best learned from people who have gone before you then no, you need more training. There is a better way. Go to a reputable class. FInd a reputable place where you can hone your craft, meet people who have the same energy you do, see different styles and pick which one is right for you, practice with others and learn people who are successful doing it Get a complete overview of market basics and practice those before risking significant captial. Learn and teach. I have my opionions and the others have theirs. Which one is right for you depends on what you believe.

One final thought. You're an accountant. How many companies would hire you as an accountant if you had told them you were self-trained or had taken a home study course?
 
Dang, one more thought...

Learning indicators and entry points is not the most important thing to learn about trading. Putting $X in an account then pow-wowing with some puseudo-salesman teach you about the lastest greatest sure-thing indicator is not the most important thing. Here's a basic course outline.

What is a chart - basics (Edwards and McGee)
Risk Management - positoin sizing (Van Tharp)
Psychology of trading - when to get out (exits) and how to obey your stops. (Douglas, Van Tharp)
Entry patterns and signals (Elder, take your pick of any thousands of them)

THere, that's worth it's weight in gold if you do decide to do it yourself. If you decide to take a class then you will be that much further ahead.
 
Quote from JRL:

I guess what I'm wondering is this: am I doing it right? Is there a better way to learn and understand the ways to successful shorter-term trading than what I'm doing now?
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You want a mentor – admirable but not smart

There is not another human alive that can help/ force/ guide you thru the psychological aspects of trading – it’s a journey we face and travel alone – some make it, most don’t

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As to becoming a day trader

Pick one stock – you’ve done that – and follow its price movement every day – you’re doing that


Now drop the news, fundamentals, following the DJI, its sector, and literally everything else up to and including any opinion you have, or needing to know why price is moving like it is….

(I can not stress the importance of this enough if you want to become a day trader)


Observe that one stock until you get to know its behavior inside and out

Figure out an intraday time frame you want to trade – then watch that time frame using use multiple time frames (times on either side of the time frame you’re trading)

Figure out a way to determine – when price is ranging/ or trending/ or just making noise

Learn to differentiate pullbacks/ consolidation / continuation – from reversals

Learn to pay attention to certain price levels, and certain times of the day (yes I could tell you what these are but better you learn on your own – and besides you may find something I have not)

If you need some indicators to help you out – use em – if you don’t, then don’t – no need to overcomplicate your charts…

Do this – then if you still find a need to add the stuff I suggested you drop – add it back in – but realize it is only a security blanket – for a stock’s price will do what it does no matter what….

btw I’ve seen the market rise and the stock I’m trading tank, and I’ve also seen the inverse – many, many, many times

Figuring out how to trade/ creating set ups is very, very easy – seriously…….

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the psychological baggage/ stuff you have is what you will need to work thru in your head to become successful – this is where the real challenge lies.

And do not think for one minute once you get one thing fixed you are good to go – it does not work that way – because as you resolve one thing and progress – other stuff will pop up – always will

Trading successfully is a journey – of self discovery more than anything else – and realize becoming consistently profitable – is only one small step along your journey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One last suggestion – learn to see money as a tool – it is absolutely no better or worse than any other tool (pitchfork/ hammer/ saw/ shovel/ engine/ toothpick/ trading simulator – whatever)

And use it just as you would any tool – to accomplish exactly what you wish

RN
 
Quote from dalentar:

What is a chart - basics (Edwards and McGee)
Risk Management - positoin sizing (Van Tharp)
Psychology of trading - when to get out (exits) and how to obey your stops. (Douglas, Van Tharp)
Entry patterns and signals (Elder, take your pick of any thousands of them)

THere, that's worth it's weight in gold if you do decide to do it yourself. If you decide to take a class then you will be that much further ahead.
More...

Thanks, Dalentar.

I've heard those recommended books on this forum a lot, so those I'll for sure pick up.

Just don't want to get too overloaded with information, analysis paralysis, etc. Action is still what ultimately produces results, and I'm pretty tired of being in training. I've gone through a couple of lows in my past which have given me a new appreciation towards capital preservation, which will always be top of mind with me.
 
Quote from Redneck trader:

You want a mentor – admirable but not smart

There is not another human alive that can help/ force/ guide you thru the psychological aspects of trading – it’s a journey we face and travel alone – some make it, most don’t

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to becoming a day trader

Pick one stock – you’ve done that – and follow its price movement every day – you’re doing that


Now drop the news, fundamentals, following the DJI, its sector, and literally everything else up to and including any opinion you have, or needing to know why price is moving like it is….

(I can not stress the importance of this enough if you want to become a day trader)


Observe that one stock until you get to know its behavior inside and out

Figure out an intraday time frame you want to trade – then watch that time frame using use multiple time frames (times on either side of the time frame you’re trading)

Figure out a way to determine – when price is ranging/ or trending/ or just making noise

Learn to differentiate pullbacks/ consolidation / continuation – from reversals

Learn to pay attention to certain price levels, and certain times of the day (yes I could tell you what these are but better you learn on your own – and besides you may find something I have not)

If you need some indicators to help you out – use em – if you don’t, then don’t – no need to overcomplicate your charts…

Do this – then if you still find a need to add the stuff I suggested you drop – add it back in – but realize it is only a security blanket – for a stock’s price will do what it does no matter what….

btw I’ve seen the market rise and the stock I’m trading tank, and I’ve also seen the inverse – many, many, many times

Figuring out how to trade/ creating set ups is very, very easy – seriously…….

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the psychological baggage/ stuff you have is what you will need to work thru in your head to become successful – this is where the real challenge lies.

And do not think for one minute once you get one thing fixed you are good to go – it does not work that way – because as you resolve one thing and progress – other stuff will pop up – always will

Trading successfully is a journey – of self discovery more than anything else – and realize becoming consistently profitable – is only one small step along your journey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One last suggestion – learn to see money as a tool – it is absolutely no better or worse than any other tool (pitchfork/ hammer/ saw/ shovel/ engine/ toothpick/ trading simulator – whatever)

And use it just as you would any tool – to accomplish exactly what you wish

RN
More...

Awesome post. Thank you for taking the time to share these with me.

I've officially bookmarked this thread and give sincere thanks to all those who have contributed.
 
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