In Desperation, Mitt heads towards the middle

Quote from RCG Trader:

So I can drop Tsing and call you by your real name, Ivan.

Ivan. The Russians were broken in part by Afghanistan. We stepped right into the same pile of dung. Now, you have a serious advantage in that you have gone Back to the Future. Most Americans have no clue what happens when an Empire collapses suddenly. It is one reason why I am a trader. I saw this in 1999.

Ivan, you know we will not avoid the crash. My actual question is, how can the masses survive it? This is what matters. "If we do not hang together, we shall surely hang separately." That is my worry.
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Ivan is no more my real name than Tsing Tao, but you can call me Ivan if you wish. I certainly do not mind. Just don't call me late for dinner.

The masses will survive the first collapse, apart from the violence that takes over major metropolitan areas and has to be quelled by the national guard. But they will be poorer still, and once the reset comes, the social programs that are in place that got us to where we are today will be pulled - as we simply won't be able to afford them. Regardless of what programs you support, and I DO support a few of them - all will be removed. All.

We will be lucky if a collapse in democracy brings only a passive dictatorial type government.
 
Quote from mrbill:

I agree, if nothing else comes from this election, the blowing off of the teaparty will be a victory of sorts, all on its' own. I think by 2016, the teaparty will be a side note to history.

Does anyone here on ET actually admit to being a teaparty supporter?
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This depends on what policies of the Tea Party you are asking about. I support, very much, the Tea Party's position of a balanced budget amendment, fiscal discipline, term limits in congress, and the overturning of Obamacare.
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

.... I support, very much, the Tea Party's position of a balanced budget amendment, fiscal discipline, term limits in congress, and the overturning of Obamacare.
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Ditto^2
 
Quote from RCG Trader:

....I am going to seriously try to have discussion with him.
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Right up until you're asked to present supporting facts?
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

Ivan is no more my real name than Tsing Tao, but you can call me Ivan if you wish. I certainly do not mind. Just don't call me late for dinner.

The masses will survive the first collapse, apart from the violence that takes over major metropolitan areas and has to be quelled by the national guard. But they will be poorer still, and once the reset comes, the social programs that are in place that got us to where we are today will be pulled - as we simply won't be able to afford them. Regardless of what programs you support, and I DO support a few of them - all will be removed. All.

We will be lucky if a collapse in democracy brings only a passive dictatorial type government.
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:D Not seriously you dodo:D

I meant that Ivanovich is a better fit in my limited view to your experiences.

All democracies collapses into dictatorships and vice versa. It is like a kondratiev wave in politics. That's all. So, in the aggregate you are right. America is headed towards hard fascism. ( We are in soft fascism right now)
 
Quote from RCG Trader:

:D Not seriously you dodo:D

I meant that Ivanovich is a better fit in my limited view to your experiences.

All democracies collapses into dictatorships and vice versa. It is like a kondratiev wave in politics. That's all. So, in the aggregate you are right. America is headed towards hard fascism. ( We are in soft fascism right now)
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So let me ask you this, then. In your opinion, WHY do all democracies collapse into dictatorships? Or more specifically, why do all democracies collapse?
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

So let me ask you this, then. In your opinion, WHY do all democracies collapse into dictatorships? Or more specifically, why do all democracies collapse?
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People get lazy, they get decadent, they stopped being involved in the process that makes democracy work. As fewer and fewer people are involved, special interests power grows. Over time, a plutocracy develops, or the democratic empire overreaches. See Rome....our Grandmother. That is really all that needs to be studied.
 
Quote from RCG Trader:

People get lazy, they get decadent, they stopped being involved in the process that makes democracy work. As fewer and fewer people are involved, special interests power grows. Over time, a plutocracy develops, or the democratic empire overreaches. See Rome....our Grandmother. That is really all that needs to be studied.
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Ok, I am comfortable with this answer and inclined to agree.

So based on this, why do you support a political party that does it's best to support this enabled, lazy environment where fewer and fewer people are part of the givers and more and more are the takers?
 
Romney has lost the entire working class. You can't win their vote by telling them they haven't sacrificed enough. That they don't pay enough in taxes. That they are a bunch of freeloaders looking for a hand out. These people are busting their asses day in and day out just to get the bills paid. He has grouped the guy making 15 bucks an hour, working 60 hours a week, with some slug scamming the welfare system. When you generalize to that degree you're not going to make any new friends.
 
Quote from Tsing Tao:

Ok, I am comfortable with this answer and inclined to agree.

So based on this, why do you support a political party that does it's best to support this enabled, lazy environment where fewer and fewer people are part of the givers and more and more are the takers?
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It is a cause celebre that FT and I defected from the conservative camp. He left due to religion. I left because the Tea Party had taken over the GOP, and they had gone too far right. Arab racism was unacceptable to me, considering the recent history of my own people.

I agree with you Ivan, but you do not realize that this GOP would call Reagan a liberal. It is about social issues with this group, and they believe in "states rights" and "natural selection" which is another way to say they believe in Apartheid, therefore, the conservatives can kiss my black ass.
 
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