I'm Looking for Traders to Invest With
- Thread starter Doug Allen
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While this is largely correct, you're forgetting about the small group of budding traders who can make money but are not yet well funded or set for life. Else how did those that are currently well funded and set get to be in that position in the first place? From which group did they come? Unless every successful trader is a trust-fund baby, they all had to start from a point after they turned the corner of profitability and travel to the point where they are now well funded and set. Granted, profitable traders will quickly become well funded, so I assume Doug (if he's legit) is hoping to find traders within this small window of time.
FWIW, that is how I see myself... a profitable trader who is not yet well funded. I don't need Doug's money; I already have a trading account that's big enough to execute my strategies, a career progression plan, I am executing against it, and I am very happy to be on the path I am on. That said, I'm willing to consider other options that can speed up my career progression, such as joining a prop firm at the right time and under the right circumstances, or accepting free money from strangers.
Can you imagine being an investor with doug Allen and him revealing that his fof was made up of noise traders with no edge? He NEEDs to reveal his method of trading to the investors. No way would an investor stay invested if they really knew how he was finding edge
Did a search of fofs near his address. Nothing is in the vicenity. Something smells fishy
Did a search of fofs near his address. Nothing is in the vicenity. Something smells fishy
Quote from filter_sweep:
While this is largely correct, you're forgetting about the small group of budding traders who can make money but are not yet well funded or set for life. Else how did those that are currently well funded and set get to be in that position in the first place? From which group did they come? Unless every successful trader is a trust-fund baby, they all had to start from a point after they turned the corner of profitability and travel to the point where they are now well funded and set. Granted, profitable traders will quickly become well funded, so I assume Doug (if he's legit) is hoping to find traders within this small window of time.
FWIW, that is how I see myself... a profitable trader who is not yet well funded. I don't need Doug's money; I already have a trading account that's big enough to execute my strategies, a career progression plan, I am executing against it, and I am very happy to be on the path I am on. That said, I'm willing to consider other options that can speed up my career progression, such as joining a prop firm at the right time and under the right circumstances, or accepting free money from strangers.
here is some math for you:
I would not consider anybody successful in trading unless he/she makes at least 5% return on the money a month. I believe this number will be largely accepted by majority of the traders regardless of the size of their trading account. So, 1.05 ^ 12 gives you annualized rate of return of 180% (compounded, of course). If you go to any bank an get 100K to finance your small business ( a small business loan) at the end of the first year you will clear at least 75K that you could now use as your trading capital. Using the same rate of return you then can convert it into 440K in three years. After that you can make any money you want. What is wrong with this plan? Unless, of course, you do not believe in your ability to make 5% a month in which case you should not accept anybody else's money because it will not be ethical.
I dont post much on ET but I do read it occasionally searching for the very few individuals that actually have something of value to add.
In terms of Risk vs Reward, what really is the risk here? Is it really a risk of giving out an email address or personal information?? That to me is an asinine thought. If your email address is so important then go make a new email address and use it to correspond and I dont think the op has asked for any personal information up to this point so there really is no risk there.
The risk to many is looking and feeling stupid, getting duped, being told one thing and having something else happen. I think for many humans on this planet their belief systems are such that they believe "if it looks to good to be true, then it probably is," and since they believe this, this is exactly what they get. They are not open to the possibilities of life anymore, they are closed down. You can see this all over the place on ET. A trader might come on saying that "these markets are the best markets I have ever seen," and you will have 10 people attack them saying "your so full of it, I cannot make money in these markets therefore no one must be making money in these markets." Or it can be the opposite where as someone might say (and others will of course jump on the same ship as misery loves company) "these markets are horrible, they are too volatile, they are too slow, they are too thin (whatever their excuse) I CANNOT MAKE MONEY!" And you may have those few that chime in and say "wow, I feel these are the best markets I have seen in many years.. etc.." (and of course the naysayers say PROVE IT, I MUST SEE PROOF OR IT DOESNâT EXIST!!)
I feel that what is reality for one person is usually not reality for the other person. Just because a person cannot succeed at trading they want to blame it on everyone else or the circumstances outside of themselves, when in reality the answer lies within.
Just because they dont BELIEVE that a person cannot have a winning percentage of 70-80% (or better) does that mean that it is impossible? Does it mean that no one in the world is achieving this? What is reality for one person may be and usually is a pipe dream for many others because they cannot fathom it in their own minds and therefore it never comes to them. You could use the above scenario with anything else trading related, winning percentage, account equity increase, winning days in a row, whatever, it doesnât matter its all the same and it all comes down to belief.
I also feel that deep down many of the naysayers want to be involved with what the op is offering but once again they donât believe that its possibly true and the reasons why they wouldnât even just explore it further sort of boggles the mind really. What do people have to lose besides looking and feeling stupid? (Are you saying that you have never looked or felt stupid in your lives prior to this?) How many times have you looked and felt stupid by putting on wrong trades or learning how to trade?
For some reason in society people seem to care what others think about them and there is definitely a âcrowdâ mentality when it comes to ET. If someone posts something and the âcrowdâ doesnât like it you can see the usual posters start making fun or picking on the op or anyone they deem made a âstupid/illogical/untrue/impossibleâ (according to their reality) post. Itâs almost like because they cannot have success or are struggling at trading then everyone else should be struggling as well and no one else deserves success.
There is also a fear of loss involved in this thread, what if this op is truly telling the truth, then of course the naysayers at that point wont feel so good will they? And if the op is full of it and proves the naysayers right, then that doesnât matter because they knew it all along anyway, just another day in the life of this place known as elite trader.
I just refreshed the thread and Maestro pointed out something that I was going to add in as well but he has already done it. For the most part anyone who can successfully trade is already doing so (and usually well funded). Sure some wont be, but they can usually find a better deal (better split, more capital, etc) without looking too hard. As he posted good traders are usually hard to find, they arenât spending their time posting on ET for the most part. They are making their money, spending time with friends and family or doing whatever they want to be doing because they have the ability to do this because they are free. After all money is really just freedom, it wont buy you true love, true friendship or anything that really matters besides TIME and the ability to do what you want, when you want with that TIME.
I do appreciate the very few people who do post thought provoking threads on et or the ones who are kind enough to help each other learn (which is in reality threads that make me think on my own but in a way that I might not have discovered had I not been pushed in that direction). As for all the other âschmucksâ (as maestro puts it) its true, they wont ever learn to trade anyway and they will continue with the herd mentality and if and when they do trade they will be the herd and any successful trader knows that weak hands will eventually get taken out by the strong hands because thatâs just how the market works and it will never change ---> I am that, I AM.
So in reality, what do people (if they truly want or need this opportunity) have to lose? Is it unlimited upside with no downside? If so, why not free your minds and take a shot at it, if it doesn't work out it wont be the first time you ever looked/felt stupid in your life and if it is, congratulations as you truly are a rarity.
In terms of Risk vs Reward, what really is the risk here? Is it really a risk of giving out an email address or personal information?? That to me is an asinine thought. If your email address is so important then go make a new email address and use it to correspond and I dont think the op has asked for any personal information up to this point so there really is no risk there.
The risk to many is looking and feeling stupid, getting duped, being told one thing and having something else happen. I think for many humans on this planet their belief systems are such that they believe "if it looks to good to be true, then it probably is," and since they believe this, this is exactly what they get. They are not open to the possibilities of life anymore, they are closed down. You can see this all over the place on ET. A trader might come on saying that "these markets are the best markets I have ever seen," and you will have 10 people attack them saying "your so full of it, I cannot make money in these markets therefore no one must be making money in these markets." Or it can be the opposite where as someone might say (and others will of course jump on the same ship as misery loves company) "these markets are horrible, they are too volatile, they are too slow, they are too thin (whatever their excuse) I CANNOT MAKE MONEY!" And you may have those few that chime in and say "wow, I feel these are the best markets I have seen in many years.. etc.." (and of course the naysayers say PROVE IT, I MUST SEE PROOF OR IT DOESNâT EXIST!!)
I feel that what is reality for one person is usually not reality for the other person. Just because a person cannot succeed at trading they want to blame it on everyone else or the circumstances outside of themselves, when in reality the answer lies within.
Just because they dont BELIEVE that a person cannot have a winning percentage of 70-80% (or better) does that mean that it is impossible? Does it mean that no one in the world is achieving this? What is reality for one person may be and usually is a pipe dream for many others because they cannot fathom it in their own minds and therefore it never comes to them. You could use the above scenario with anything else trading related, winning percentage, account equity increase, winning days in a row, whatever, it doesnât matter its all the same and it all comes down to belief.
I also feel that deep down many of the naysayers want to be involved with what the op is offering but once again they donât believe that its possibly true and the reasons why they wouldnât even just explore it further sort of boggles the mind really. What do people have to lose besides looking and feeling stupid? (Are you saying that you have never looked or felt stupid in your lives prior to this?) How many times have you looked and felt stupid by putting on wrong trades or learning how to trade?
For some reason in society people seem to care what others think about them and there is definitely a âcrowdâ mentality when it comes to ET. If someone posts something and the âcrowdâ doesnât like it you can see the usual posters start making fun or picking on the op or anyone they deem made a âstupid/illogical/untrue/impossibleâ (according to their reality) post. Itâs almost like because they cannot have success or are struggling at trading then everyone else should be struggling as well and no one else deserves success.
There is also a fear of loss involved in this thread, what if this op is truly telling the truth, then of course the naysayers at that point wont feel so good will they? And if the op is full of it and proves the naysayers right, then that doesnât matter because they knew it all along anyway, just another day in the life of this place known as elite trader.
I just refreshed the thread and Maestro pointed out something that I was going to add in as well but he has already done it. For the most part anyone who can successfully trade is already doing so (and usually well funded). Sure some wont be, but they can usually find a better deal (better split, more capital, etc) without looking too hard. As he posted good traders are usually hard to find, they arenât spending their time posting on ET for the most part. They are making their money, spending time with friends and family or doing whatever they want to be doing because they have the ability to do this because they are free. After all money is really just freedom, it wont buy you true love, true friendship or anything that really matters besides TIME and the ability to do what you want, when you want with that TIME.
I do appreciate the very few people who do post thought provoking threads on et or the ones who are kind enough to help each other learn (which is in reality threads that make me think on my own but in a way that I might not have discovered had I not been pushed in that direction). As for all the other âschmucksâ (as maestro puts it) its true, they wont ever learn to trade anyway and they will continue with the herd mentality and if and when they do trade they will be the herd and any successful trader knows that weak hands will eventually get taken out by the strong hands because thatâs just how the market works and it will never change ---> I am that, I AM.
So in reality, what do people (if they truly want or need this opportunity) have to lose? Is it unlimited upside with no downside? If so, why not free your minds and take a shot at it, if it doesn't work out it wont be the first time you ever looked/felt stupid in your life and if it is, congratulations as you truly are a rarity.
While your math may be correct, and in many ways actualy confirms my argument that there's a multi-year window between profitability and being well funded, there are two factors you do not include:
1. Living expenses... if trading is your full-time endeavor, most people will have to make periodic withdrawels from their account to pay bills, which slows down your compounding assumption
2. I doubt "any bank" will give you, me, or anyone else a 100k small business loan to day trade futures, regardless of past performance, especially in this environment. My understanding is these types of loans are only granted to purchase capital equipment that the bank can repossess and sell if the business goes under.
OK, I understand. Would you be so kind and tell me the following:
I understand that you trade futures, I would assume e-minis then. Could you reliably make 1 point on ES a day? (on average, of course). If you can then you are making 15 - 20 % return a month. If you cannot then you are correct, it will be difficult to find financing. But if you can, then feeding yourself and growing your trading capital at the same time is possible. In 1992 I have started with 5K that I borrowed from a friend of mine. I have lost it in 2 weeks. I borrowed another 5K and lost it too. After that I worked 3 jobs and learned how to trade at night. I have paid my debt in 3 years and amounted 10K of my own capital by then. The first year (1996) I broke even, bought a lot of books, learned a lot of methods, took a few courses. In 1997 I made 20K. Took time off, developed my first automated system and returned to trading with renewed strength. In 2001 I made my first 6 figure return. Today I manage 4 funds and consult a lot of private trading firms. I teach trading and options to pro traders and still trade hands-on myself every day. I believe that everybody has to pay the dues, suffer through and if survived enjoy the fruit of making it your main SKILL! GOOD LUCK TO YOU! ONLY THE STRONGEST WILL LIVE! And for all the other schmucks -keep on squealing.
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