I'm Looking for Traders to Invest With

[Doug Allen]

Quote from atticus:

First it was an even profit split, now we're talking 80/20 favoring the fund?

Hi Atticus,

I'm not sure that I remember ever saying that the initial plan was a 50/50 sharing of the profits. I think is one of those things that somebody else decided. But maybe I said something that made people think that. I'm not sure.

In any event, like all business matters, the terms are negotiable. I just pointed out that guys who trade inside a hedge fund structure take 20% of the profits.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from Doug Allen:

Hi Atticus,

I'm not sure that I remember ever saying that the initial plan was a 50/50 sharing of the profits. I think is one of those things that somebody else decided. But maybe I said something that made people think that. I'm not sure.

In any event, like all business matters, the terms are negotiable. I just pointed out that guys who trade inside a hedge fund structure take 20% of the profits.

This isn't accurate.

The fund itself keeps 20% of the profits. plus 1 or 2% mgt fee in the standard arrangement.

The traders themselves have differing arrangements with the manager, as far as payouts, bonuses, salary, et al .

normal prop firms offer their traders million plus in buying power with the trader often keeping near 100% of their earnings.

what edge do you offer? How do you differentiate yourself from the all the better offers on the street for traders?

How long have you been "investing" in hedge funds??

surf

 

[RoughTrader]

Quote from Doug Allen:

Hi Everybody...


In other words, my partner and I plan set up and fund the accounts, you trade the accounts, we split the profits ...


Thanks,

Doug Allen

 

[atticus]

Quote from Doug Allen:

Hi Atticus,

I'm not sure that I remember ever saying that the initial plan was a 50/50 sharing of the profits. I think is one of those things that somebody else decided. But maybe I said something that made people think that. I'm not sure.

In any event, like all business matters, the terms are negotiable. I just pointed out that guys who trade inside a hedge fund structure take 20% of the profits.

I recall some calc using 50% in one of your posts. I am not inclined to search for it.

Honestly, you sound like a dilettante. There seems to be zero thought given to administration. I'd guess that you may have marketed for a fund, but beyond that you haven't stated anything that leads me to believe you know what you're doing. You're on the record stating you're in the FoF business.

No firm split... no mention of products, front-end, clearing, etc. Worse, I've yet to see risk-management enter into the discussion. These errors of omission usually denote bullshit.

I hope I am mistaken and you're not taking these fools for a ride, but I find it strange that the only thing vetted is some strange looking broad whose claim to fame is some NLP life-coaching?

Does she monitor risk via remote viewing?

All joking aside, is it 80/20 or 50/50? Do you have access to OTC? Signed PBA? What level of funding? Where do you cut them loose? 10%, 20% loss? If 80/20, does the deal improve with performance?

Don't you think these should be made public in an effort to retain some barrier to entry?

In any event, this is a staked scenario, not a FoF opportunity.

 

[Doug Allen]

Quote from marketsurfer:

This isn't accurate.

The fund itself keeps 20% of the profits. plus 1 or 2% mgt fee in the standard arrangement.

The traders themselves have differing arrangements with the manager, as far as payouts, bonuses, salary, et al .

normal prop firms offer their traders million plus in buying power with the trader often keeping near 100% of their earnings.

what edge do you offer? How do you differentiate yourself from the all the better offers on the street for traders?

How long have you been "investing" in hedge funds??

Hey surf,

Obviously we are not a prop firm. Like I said, to this point we've only invested money with traders through the hedge fund structures they've set up. Apparently these traders thought it was a good idea to trade OPM with a 1/20 split. You'd have to ask them what competitive edge our money has.

Whatever their thinking, they gladly accept on our investments and have done quite well for us.

My thoughts are that there may be traders here with similar motivations. I'm not in the business of trading everyday anymore, so I don't know.

Could it be that the prop firms have conditions on the buying power that is incompatible with how some people trade?

 

[Doug Allen]

Quote from RoughTrader:


Quote from Doug Allen:

Hi Everybody...


In other words, my partner and I plan set up and fund the accounts, you trade the accounts, we split the profits ...


Thanks,

Doug Allen

I guess you took the word "split" to mean 50/50. I guess coming from the hedge fund industry I'm using to using the word "split" in the context of the 80/20 split that's pretty much standard. Sorry for the confusion caused by my careless used of the word "split."

 

[Doug Allen]

Quote from percy3687:

when working as prop trader we get 50-60% as payout.

20% by managing hedge funds is a good amount, as the buying power in prop floors is very less as compared to hedge funds.

Doug i have sent you mail, hope u have read it.

Hi Percy,

Thanks for the email. I've been working on setting up a more systematic way to communicate with everybody. I didn't anticipate the volume of people that are interested.

I will be in touch with everybody individually, but I first want to get a better way to understand what everybody does so I can communicate with them more efficiently.

I'll be contacting you directly in the next day or two.

Thanks

Doug

 

[fearless9]

As I mentioned, the Proponent of this type of scheme needs to be crystal clear of the desired outcome otherwise he will wind up pretty much blowing in the wind.

So let us expand a little here...............

Our OP can only be searching for one of three animals.

1... firstly, there is undeveloped potential person .. ripe for development.
An excellent choice if you are skilled enough to recognise it.
The problem with picking this person is that if they turn out to fulfill the OP's expectations, they will by default fulfill their own and move on.

2... then there is the person already trading, say as a Prop Trader.
How do you lure them away from their current situation,and if I dare even approach the obvious, 'why are they not on their own already'

3... finally you have THE Trader. This is the person you really want, but the boot is on the other foot .... what can you, the OP, offer in return.

This is where the million dollar account that has been much discussed here, come into play.
THE Trader says that if they do not have a million dollar account, then they soon will, and by their own merits.
Our OP says 'but how hard is it to trade my account for a share of the profits' in addition to your own.

THE Trader says 'we use different Brokers and they do not share common front ends. Every time I make a trade I will need to duplicate it on two front ends (or at the very least, change accounts with a common broker)
THE Trader asks the OP ... you have admitted to making millions through trading, so what is your plan for my intraday trading duel accounts. The devil is always in the details. Well it is in the details providing you have the macro view in place first.
This is something most people don't bother about... too hard, makes their head hurt.

You see, Trader3 is in reality interviewing Doug.
Trader3 doesn't need Doug but Doug wants Trader3.
Trader3 has learned to harness that most valuable of commodities ..time.

Doug is at that stage in life where he thinks that money (one million dollars) and the promise of revealing a new slant on trading) will entice people into his fold.

He is quite correct of course and I wish him all the very best.

The one person he cannot entice is the very person he wants... Trader3.

The big problem is that Trader3 doesn't need Doug, but every time he looks over his shoulder, he can see Doug far in the distance.

Because Trader3 has worked himself clear of the world of manipulation, he spares a thought to where Doug is coming from. He thinks to himself, if Doug wants more money and being a multi million dollar trader then the answer lies within himself.

So obviously Doug has a yet to be revealed motive.
These games that people play are of no interest to Trader3

And so, what is trading all about.
Trader3 knows it buys you the most valued finite resource in life ... it buys you time.
The million dollar account is but a stepping stone.

If you sincerely believe that Doug can accelerate you along your path, then reach out and grab Doug and his million dollar account along with Patty DeMartin.

Grab them both and embrace them because they just might set you along the right path.
Who knows, you might sweep Doug and Patty along with you.

regards
f9

 

[Champion]

Quote from atticus:


No firm split... no mention of products, front-end, clearing, etc. Worse, I've yet to see risk-management enter into the discussion. These errors of omission usually denote bullshit.

You have nicely Doug up this poser's landslide of bullshit.

 

[Tide31]

Quote from Doug Allen:

I guess you took the word "split" to mean 50/50. I guess coming from the hedge fund industry I'm using to using the word "split" in the context of the 80/20 split that's pretty much standard. Sorry for the confusion caused by my careless used of the word "split."

Quote from Tide31:

Doug it seems like a nice offer and you will get many hits on your PM. You will be in for a lot of training from the repliers you get, everyone wants to learn to trade. 20% payout for a short-term/daytrading book is not that attractive unfortunately. You are willing to pay out on a monthly basis so most if not all traders will be daytrading. 50% roi in any traditional strategy this year, other than perhaps a levered 'distressed debt' book, will be impossible.

20% payout on $1mm buying power for a daytrading pad is so far from industry standard that you will not get any experienced traders to take you up on your offer. The industry 'standard', which you must be aware of, is 50% and .01/share comm. If someone is working off a $100k buying power in own account, with 50 to 1 leverage available from a number of the prop firm sponsers of this forum (ET), thats $2000 of equity in their account and trader keeps 100% of profits. If trader had $100k in their account, their buying power would be $5mm, and to match your payout of $100k, would need only to generate 2% annualized to get that, instead of 50%.

It seems by saying that each trader is his own 'hedge fund' you can legitimize the 20% payout, but the actual capital you need to put up for $1mm buying power is diminimus with a good prime broker relationship. If a trader could generate $500k as in your example, it would be the equivelant of putting $20k down at Assent and making $500k off of that equity. Any trader I know capable of that would not be willing to take $100k compensation for such a heroic effort.

Doug, this is why I posted this earier. We understand you are coming from the hedge fund world, as are a number of us, and felt the neccesity to fill you in on how 'splits' work in short-term trading. You may still get a number of 'sign ons' but if you come to the market (at the market being 50/50 split) you would do much better in the long run with profitable traders that you 'steal' away from competitors. In order to entice them, you may have to actually sweeten it beyond this, at least initially. You like mentoring, but if you were going to have someone fix your car would you want to have to wait for him to learn how to do it? Once he learns how to do it, do you think he'll stay for 40% of the going rate away? I think thats the point people are trying to make here.