I'm Looking for Traders to Invest With

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Doug it seems like a nice offer and you will get many hits on your PM. You will be in for a lot of training from the repliers you get, everyone wants to learn to trade. 20% payout for a short-term/daytrading book is not that attractive unfortunately. You are willing to pay out on a monthly basis so most if not all traders will be daytrading. 50% roi in any traditional strategy this year, other than perhaps a levered 'distressed debt' book, will be impossible.

20% payout on $1mm buying power for a daytrading pad is so far from industry standard that you will not get any experienced traders to take you up on your offer. The industry 'standard', which you must be aware of, is 50% and .01/share comm. If someone is working off a $100k buying power in own account, with 50 to 1 leverage available from a number of the prop firm sponsers of this forum (ET), thats $2000 of equity in their account and trader keeps 100% of profits. If trader had $100k in their account, their buying power would be $5mm, and to match your payout of $100k, would need only to generate 2% annualized to get that, instead of 50%.

It seems by saying that each trader is his own 'hedge fund' you can legitimize the 20% payout, but the actual capital you need to put up for $1mm buying power is diminimus with a good prime broker relationship. If a trader could generate $500k as in your example, it would be the equivelant of putting $20k down at Assent and making $500k off of that equity. Any trader I know capable of that would not be willing to take $100k compensation for such a heroic effort.

Best of luck, and thanks, lot of underfunded guys will take advantage of offer and I do very much believe you are genuine, just not a 'great' deal for most of us.
 
Quote from Dax_scalper08:

what software will be used for example in both the charting and actual trading software and who will pay for these fees
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What I envision is the individual trader using whatever software and software that works for them. The accounts will be in my name so my account will have any associated fees deducted.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

He seems like a sincere guy, however, this is appearing more and more like some kind of tony robbins NLP experiment of some sort.

When are you going to spill the beans, Doug, what is this really about---are you tony robbins, bandler, or another similar type of NLP guru?

pss. i concur that old money would never mention a RR, however someone newly wealthy or pseudo wealthy might....

knowing where Doug lives--i remember driving another RR--range rover-- fishing in that region and the odd looks and stares--so its indeed possible... [/B]
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Hey surf,

Interesting take on things...

No, I'm not a NLP guru, although there are distinctions I've made from NLP that are useful, like how to collapse anchors. This is a very useful skill in trading.

My philosophy in life is typically one of being open-minded. I usually don't superficially "look into" anything and conclude it's complete B.S. But could the psychic hotline be any more b.s. than 95% of all technical analysis and chart reading? I know this may sound sacrilegious, but I'd be willing to put up money that somebody calling tops and bottoms using tarot cards would probably do as well as most traders using trendlines, MAs, and any number of the popular indicators. The only difference being that the popular indicators may tend to become self-fulfilling if enough people use them in a thin enough market.

Here's a thought for you to ponder...

We all have problems or challenges. We all are at a certain place now, and for the most part, we all want to get to the next level, whatever that may be.

The reason most people get stuck where they're at is because they keep doing the same things to try to solve their problems that led them to having the problem in the first place. What I'm attempting to do is get to the next level by thinking outside the box and doing something different. I might suggest that most progress is made when one does something different than they've been doing. And in fact, often quantum jumps in progress can occur as the result of even tiny shifts in a person's model.

I hope that doesn't sound all airy-fairy, NLP guru-ish. :)

Doug

PS... just curious.... when I look at my brokerage statements, how do I tell which money is the old money and which is the new money? My broker just mixes it all together... lol.
 
Interesting, Doug.

I agree with you on 93% of what you state.

however, this experiment has been tried previously with not so impressive results--

Have fun at Mardi Gras-- next time you are in NYC, give me a call!

surf


ps--by the way, the old money, new money distinction has to do with attitudes toward money, not the money itself..... but you already know this, right? ;)
 
Quote from percy3687:

Sent a mail to join in.
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Might be helpful if at least 1 of the 180 hopefuls lives to tell everyone what happened ?

Could be shills but one can't tell that.

Some sort of religious cult ? Have to say 2 hari krishnas before breakfast ?

Could even be completely on the level !! Sorta hard to believe after Bernie Maddoff etc.

A pity if it is completely legit, only to be turned down by a " too good to be true " philosophy.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:



however, this experiment has been tried previously with not so impressive results--
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I imagine that the results vary when the Experimenter is less than crystal clear of the desired outcome.

For example when you spot some likely potential in a new Trader, all you can really do (IMO) is open their minds to a reality that they are yet to forsee.
If they are any good, they will succeed in their own right, you become merely the accelerant.
Problem being that you accelerate them into their own accounts.

Whether all the bother of managing a group of talented Traders using your account is worth while, is another matter entirely.

One alternative to this lateral approach is a more vertical approach by intra trading say ES momentum and using the surplus from this exercise to position trade more trendy instruments, managing the trades yourself of course.

This is an approach that I favour in this moment, the longest trend being RE which is now moving gradually towards the buy zone.

I prefer the mix of trading cycle lengths but I do favour the spread of uncorrelated instruments because other people are doing all the work.

As always, throw out any of the above that doesn't suit you.

regards
f9
 
Quote from Doug Allen:

ok... here's the numbers...

$1 million account
trader makes 50% roi
profit = $500,000
trader makes $100,000

An extra $100,000 for sitting in front of the computer and putting in the same trades he would have anyway, except with no risk, isn't a bad deal.
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I see this the other way around. That is i am making $400k less than what i should be making. If i have an edge i wouldnt care about putting in my own risk capital. Assuming the strategy doesnt scale beyond mid 7 digits as 99% of the things do not, it makes very little sense to go the OPM route unless your end goal is to take swings and play roulette. It's analogous to what the banking industry is doing these days, the only good candidates for credit[OPM] are the ones who do not need or seek it.

I'd be very skeptical of someone trading $100k account looking for OPM regardless of track record.
 
<i>"If trader had $100k in their account, their buying power would be $5mm, and to match your payout of $100k, would need only to generate 2% annualized to get that, instead of 50%..."</i>

Viewed from a stock-prop trader's perspective, yes.

Futures trader with $1mil account keeping 100% of 2009 gains and second $1mil keeping +20% gains with zero consequence for potential loss is another perspective entirely.

Second assumption: ror is based on linear capital all year. What if trade size is incrementally scaled up thru 2009 reflective of accrued profits? $1mil starting capital may become $3mil gross by year's end due solely to increased trade size from organic account growth.

Someone trading 50 and 100-lot eminis in via initial $1mil might scale to 50 ~ 200 lot eminis (bonds) in after passing $2mil gross capital before year's end. 20% of potential $2mil profit = $400k with no downside risk to trader in this happy scenario.

Only additional factor is trade size versus personal account only.

*

Myriad scenarios... different strokes
 
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