I'm burnt out

konviction · Apr 21, 2011

Quote from ElecEquity:

They laid off guys that weren't making money or doing very well at all. I understand they still have traders trading at Schonfeld. Also, contrary to popular belief...there is still money to be made in the markets intraday. It's harder. But it's still there.

Ya but I'm sure they don't hire no dummies to trade for them. Often times these prop shops will teach their methods to their traders to help them be more successful..at least I know SMB trains and has meetings...according to their videos.

So if 50 trained and experienced trades out of 330 traders got the ax..what chance do the guys at home have?. rhetorical question. Less than 5%.

ElecEquity · Apr 21, 2011

Quote from konviction:

Ya but I'm sure they don't hire no dummies to trade for them. Often times these prop shops will teach their methods to their traders to help them be more successful..at least I know SMB trains and has meetings...according to their videos.

So if 50 trained and experienced trades out of 330 traders got the ax..what chance do the guys at home have?. rhetorical question. Less than 5%.

I can't say that I know much about Schonfeld's hiring practices. There are other guys here that traded there that can comment on that. If they hire anything like my firm hires, then I'm sure they hire smart, driven, hungry people. That said, I've seen a few ivy league Harvard guys get the ax at my firm b/c they never made a penny. Hell, we even had a few guys that were "trading" on the floor of the NYSE try trading from behind the screen and they were gone pretty fast too.

I've tried to train/mentor a few traders over the past 4 years or so and none of them worked out. Why? That's the funny thing about this business. Some people can sit right next to a guy that makes money for weeks/months and receive all types of advice and yet all of their actions are totally opposite of what they've been told and what they've observed. I'm guilty of it too. I didn't listen to my mentor when I first started...despite the fact that he was making a lot of money. Luckily I woke up before I dug myself too large a hole.

I say all of this b/c being "trained" in the context of prop trading varies greatly. For some firms that means training you on the software, basic order flow observations, maybe some T&S stuff, basic technical analysis stuff and that's all before you're thrown into the fire.

The basic at-home retail trader can still trade depending on his style of trading. If he's doing basic momentum or something like that, I don't think it means anything much for the guy at home. I don't think the guy's at home trading retail ever had the technology or the speed in order routing/fills to have an edge in anything oriented toward speed in the first place.

Per that article, there's 280 guys still trading at Schonfeld. If there was no opportunity intraday they probably would've trimmed a larger percentage of the firm than they did and they may be planning to do so. From what I've heard and I've seen during my short time in this biz is that these washouts tend to happen after volatile periods like 2008 when the market changes and many people are incapable of adapting. Just my .02.

NeoRio1 · Apr 21, 2011

Quote from will848:

I started swing trading about 4 years ago, made about 40% of my savings in the first 3 years. Then lost about 1% last year. It used to be fun, but now it's just tedious and I'm tired of it.

I don't know if I can quit though. I'm planning to quit my job, and trading, in a few months to take a gap year. But without investing in something, I will think about how I'm being left behind every second. It feels like it's consuming me.

Successful trading is boring as hell.

Gabfly1 · Apr 21, 2011

Quote from will848:

I started swing trading about 4 years ago, made about 40% of my savings in the first 3 years. Then lost about 1% last year. It used to be fun, but now it's just tedious and I'm tired of it.

I don't know if I can quit though. I'm planning to quit my job, and trading, in a few months to take a gap year. But without investing in something, I will think about how I'm being left behind every second. It feels like it's consuming me.

You're just getting a bit stale. No need to go all or nothing for a whole year. Take some time off, perhaps a few weeks or even a month or two if necessary. Then, you'll very likely be back with fresh eyes and a healthy appetite. In the meantime, forget about the markets entirely. Let them miss you.

jokepie · Apr 21, 2011

Quote from will848:

I started swing trading about 4 years ago, made about 40% of my savings in the first 3 years. Then lost about 1% last year. It used to be fun, but now it's just tedious and I'm tired of it.

I don't know if I can quit though. I'm planning to quit my job, and trading, in a few months to take a gap year. But without investing in something, I will think about how I'm being left behind every second. It feels like it's consuming me.

What you need to understand is that market conditions change all the time. Its not that swing trading is getting tuf...its the market conditions that "Might" not fit your style "RIGHT NOW"

you have to be adaptable to the market variations. This is only "EXPERIENCED" when you actually experience IT. Sorry if I am sounding Crazy.

Don't try to apply whats not working at the moment, be sure to wait until the conditions fav. your style.

Untill then ... keep learning.

Fireplace · Apr 21, 2011

I'm made a lot more money since then daytrading futs, a market I know very well. Yes, if you want to cherry pick a great investment, then you really are showing me that you don't really understand this business.

Moved on to better things?? Like what...I can't think of a way I'd make more than I currently do and from home.

Quote from fanews:

You've been in the market for 12 years and still daytrading?

If you had just bought $100,000 worth of shares of apple in 2002 you be retired now.

Now your trading against the HFT machines still doing the 9-5 daily grind. Still dealing and hustling after 12 years in the streets. The good ones have moved on to better things.

You are not paranoid that the HFT machines are programmed to kill you.

[/QUOTE]

futuresbuyer3 · Apr 21, 2011

If you're feeling burnt out take a break. Diversify your income. Lie low for a couple of months while you work on something you find exciting that might be able to make you a few bucks in the long run.

pwrtrdr · Apr 21, 2011

Quote from Fireplace:

I'm made a lot more money since then daytrading futs, a market I know very well. Yes, if you want to cherry pick a great investment, then you really are showing me that you don't really understand this business.

Moved on to better things?? Like what...I can't think of a way I'd make more than I currently do and from home.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Could have bot 200 fut's when... blah bla...... could have, is the key

Risj management, systematic...... not about making some certain percent day week etc....

orl · Apr 25, 2011

Quote from startraitor:

Go dig ditches for a week or two and report back.

Exactly! For me, trading is a passion. If you love what you do, it's harder to get burnt out. You have two choices really, quit or:

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failed_trad3r · Apr 25, 2011

Quote from ElecEquity:

I can't say that I know much about Schonfeld's hiring practices. There are other guys here that traded there that can comment on that. If they hire anything like my firm hires, then I'm sure they hire smart, driven, hungry people. That said, I've seen a few ivy league Harvard guys get the ax at my firm b/c they never made a penny. Hell, we even had a few guys that were "trading" on the floor of the NYSE try trading from behind the screen and they were gone pretty fast too.

I've tried to train/mentor a few traders over the past 4 years or so and none of them worked out. Why? That's the funny thing about this business. Some people can sit right next to a guy that makes money for weeks/months and receive all types of advice and yet all of their actions are totally opposite of what they've been told and what they've observed. I'm guilty of it too. I didn't listen to my mentor when I first started...despite the fact that he was making a lot of money. Luckily I woke up before I dug myself too large a hole.

I say all of this b/c being "trained" in the context of prop trading varies greatly. For some firms that means training you on the software, basic order flow observations, maybe some T&S stuff, basic technical analysis stuff and that's all before you're thrown into the fire.

The basic at-home retail trader can still trade depending on his style of trading. If he's doing basic momentum or something like that, I don't think it means anything much for the guy at home. I don't think the guy's at home trading retail ever had the technology or the speed in order routing/fills to have an edge in anything oriented toward speed in the first place.

Per that article, there's 280 guys still trading at Schonfeld. If there was no opportunity intraday they probably would've trimmed a larger percentage of the firm than they did and they may be planning to do so. From what I've heard and I've seen during my short time in this biz is that these washouts tend to happen after volatile periods like 2008 when the market changes and many people are incapable of adapting. Just my .02.

funny thing is washouts happen in the opposite too. Once volatility dies down, (2009 and beyond) you have a washout of those who thrived on volatility and cant adapt to low volatility.