If your broker is the counterparty to your trades by stocks, are they able to identify YOU personally? In a normal situation, a MM does not know YOU personally, just the brokerage where the order comes from. But here, since they are involved in order executions as well, is it not fair to say that your identity and your vulnerabilities (e.g. if you are using margin) are "known"?
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If your brokerage is the counterparty to your trades...
- Thread starter Option Trader
- Start date
Also, regardless of the implications of the above, what category does IB fall into, noting Timberhill?
Quote from Option Trader:
If your broker is the counterparty to your trades by stocks, are they able to identify YOU personally? In a normal situation, a MM does not know YOU personally, just the brokerage where the order comes from. But here, since they are involved in order executions as well, is it not fair to say that your identity and your vulnerabilities (e.g. if you are using margin) are "known"?
Being "known" is a fact of life in dealer [OTC] markets. The only impact I've experienced is as a buyer of exotic options in which the barrier/size was posted to Thomson IFR.
It's not remotely an issue in listed markets.
Its in the fine print of your IB agreement. One way that you can sometimes test it is to trade prime numbered odd lots and watch for them to stream by on one of your other broker's systems and note the lag-times.
Quote from Option Trader:
Also, regardless of the implications of the above, what category does IB fall into, noting Timberhill?
You don't get good fills at IB. Because their commissions are low they are interested in earning rebates on clients orders. I am talking stocks here and my remarks are confined to this instrument. If you are an active scalper at IB you will notice that most often you will get a price improvement of a penny on your orders in cases where you decide to lift the bid or offer. IB instead of lifting the bid or offer, adds a penny to your order and posts your order as the inside bid or offer thereby resulting in the price improvement of a penny on your trade when filled and more importantly from IB's point of view earns rebates for adding liquidity.
From a trader's point of view this could be extremely dangerous. Instead of getting an instant fill by deciding to take out the inside bid or offer, a penny is added to your order before being posted as the inside bid or offer leading to a situation where the price could spiral away leaving your order unfilled.
This is the case when routed through smart. However even if you decide to self route your orders you will find that it does not help because IB keeps adding a penny before posting in order to add to liquidity and earn itself rebates.
Keep a close eye on Timber Hill their MM particularly when you place large orders. He will keep posting large size in the opposite direction of your trade. However, when he reaches the inside bid or ask he will back away to a few levels down. He will keep repeating this process over and over again thereby sending a message to other MMs.
From a trader's point of view this could be extremely dangerous. Instead of getting an instant fill by deciding to take out the inside bid or offer, a penny is added to your order before being posted as the inside bid or offer leading to a situation where the price could spiral away leaving your order unfilled.
This is the case when routed through smart. However even if you decide to self route your orders you will find that it does not help because IB keeps adding a penny before posting in order to add to liquidity and earn itself rebates.
Keep a close eye on Timber Hill their MM particularly when you place large orders. He will keep posting large size in the opposite direction of your trade. However, when he reaches the inside bid or ask he will back away to a few levels down. He will keep repeating this process over and over again thereby sending a message to other MMs.
Option Trader
If your broker is the counterparty to your trades by stocks, are they able to identify YOU personally? In a normal situation..
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Yes ,it is not forbidden from security law in EU and USA
But they defined result and behaviar of specific group and trade against this . Knowledge of tactic and behaviar of specific group is source of income of counterparty
Against individual is possible alsov under some conditions -
-very big or top performer
As example FXCM king of the mini montly performer(500-800% ,king of the mini contest) tactic would used for MM
Top performer is one from 4000 .FXCM payed prize money to he'm.
Check 10-k of pure agents as OXPS and AMTD(after selling interess in NITE) Article Business ,source of revenue
No income from proprietary trading
IB through TMWD is market -maker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP42mm-qkl4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzajlo4ZJ0I&feature=related
If your broker is the counterparty to your trades by stocks, are they able to identify YOU personally? In a normal situation..
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Yes ,it is not forbidden from security law in EU and USA
But they defined result and behaviar of specific group and trade against this . Knowledge of tactic and behaviar of specific group is source of income of counterparty
Against individual is possible alsov under some conditions -
-very big or top performer
As example FXCM king of the mini montly performer(500-800% ,king of the mini contest) tactic would used for MM
Top performer is one from 4000 .FXCM payed prize money to he'm.
Check 10-k of pure agents as OXPS and AMTD(after selling interess in NITE) Article Business ,source of revenue
No income from proprietary trading
IB through TMWD is market -maker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP42mm-qkl4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzajlo4ZJ0I&feature=related
Quote from ak15:
You don't get good fills at IB. Because their commissions are low they are interested in earning rebates on clients orders. I am talking stocks here and my remarks are confined to this instrument. If you are an active scalper at IB you will notice that most often you will get a price improvement of a penny on your orders in cases where you decide to lift the bid or offer. IB instead of lifting the bid or offer, adds a penny to your order and posts your order as the inside bid or offer thereby resulting in the price improvement of a penny on your trade when filled and more importantly from IB's point of view earns rebates for adding liquidity.
From a trader's point of view this could be extremely dangerous. Instead of getting an instant fill by deciding to take out the inside bid or offer, a penny is added to your order before being posted as the inside bid or offer leading to a situation where the price could spiral away leaving your order unfilled.
This is the case when routed through smart. However even if you decide to self route your orders you will find that it does not help because IB keeps adding a penny before posting in order to add to liquidity and earn itself rebates.
Keep a close eye on Timber Hill their MM particularly when you place large orders. He will keep posting large size in the opposite direction of your trade. However, when he reaches the inside bid or ask he will back away to a few levels down. He will keep repeating this process over and over again thereby sending a message to other MMs.
I know, based on my experience as a customer of IB, that this information is totally false.
Quote from ak15:
1. Is the significance of this for situations that you place a big bid i.e. that with IB it's never "noticed" in the market? --while with another broker, it would first get "noticed"?...IB keeps adding a penny before posting in order to add to liquidity and earn itself rebates.
2. It would be interesting to know if you would suddenly cancel your buy order and place an offer, would Timber Hill suddenly flip their position as well? Or if it may all depend on if they are net short or net long?[Keep a close eye on Timber Hill their MM particularly when you place large orders. He will keep posting large size in the opposite direction of your trade. However, when he reaches the inside bid or ask he will back away to a few levels down.
3. It seems I have witnessed the same syndrom happen, but have not known who is the counterparty doing this. How could one verify if it's Timber Hill, or if it's simply the shorts?
4. If IB is net short and their objective is to "contain" the stock price, are IB customers affected by this more than other retail traders?
5. If this activity is monitored by another MM, is your point that it may become like the "sharks" seeing "blood" & they come and join?He will keep repeating this process over and over again thereby sending a message to other MMs.
this thread is quite interesting.
i've noticed on IB when i'm trading illiquid stocks and say I make a 10K bid, i instantly usually will see a 10K ask, only 1c above my pt.
and i see the same when i'm selling. say 10K at 4.55 i'll get an immediate bid, where none existed, at 4.54 for 10K.
is this what you guys are talking about?
i've noticed on IB when i'm trading illiquid stocks and say I make a 10K bid, i instantly usually will see a 10K ask, only 1c above my pt.
and i see the same when i'm selling. say 10K at 4.55 i'll get an immediate bid, where none existed, at 4.54 for 10K.
is this what you guys are talking about?