If You Can Draw A Straight Line . . .

[Crude Man]

Quote from dbphoenix:

It may. With the 30k+ views this thread has had, there may be a half-dozen people who are genuinely interested.

Since it's now been nearly twenty years since the first reasonably sophisticated charting software became available to the little guy, followed several years later by discount brokerages, and several years after that by trading forums like this one, few people are still around who remember how things used to be. Their programs come loaded with dozens of indicators, each of which has dozens of settings, and all kinds of bars and candles and whatall, so surely all that should be used. And the vendors are everywhere, pushing this indicator or that pattern or whatever else, making it all seem so difficult that the novice absolutely must rely on the vendor to clear the way or else risk ruin(my setup is better than his setup nyah nyah).

Trading price, then, becomes a thoroughly alien concept, with a language that is virtually incomprehensible. How, for example, can one conceivably trade without candlesticks, or moving averages, or even *gasp* bars? And given the youth of those who populate the internet, trying to compare how things are with how things used to be (trading by price alone has been around for centuries) is pretty much like talking to oneself.

So I've abandoned the effort to correct misinformation. Anyone who's interested is welcome to contact me and make the journey (journey . . . journal . . . journey . . . journal). Otherwise, I've said what needs to be said and said it many times over. Many many times over. And it's there until the internet winks out. So I can move on to other things, and the kids can argue amongst themselves regarding truly important subjects like whether "TA" (which is always defined incorrectly) is subjective or objective, and what the best MACD settings are.

db,

I am fascinated by your knowledge of trading, your benevolence to share your knowledge and the volume of your writing on ET and TL.

If I may, just to get a better picture of the master that you are:

What is your experience with trading?
Your educational background?
What else do you do, other than trade?
Have you ever written a book?
Are you American, European, African, Asian, Australian?
How do you/or your trading improve by helping other traders?
Are you excited/motivated to take on the market everyday?

Lastly, how accurate do you think these stages of trader evolution are: http://www.tischendorf.com/2010/01/16/bo-yoder-and-vadym-graifer-6-stages-of-a-trader/

Thanks.

 

[Gringo]

Quote from Crude Man:

What is your experience with trading?

Painful to sublime; emotional to automatic.

Quote from Crude Man:
Your educational background?

Does it matter? Although the old school rumours go from dropout to doctorate.

Quote from Crude Man:
What else do you do, other than trade?

Enjoy life, cooking, feeding birds. Try to help other losers from becoming perennial losers.

Quote from Crude Man:
Have you ever written a book?

Yes, and no. I am not sure if it's technically a book.

Quote from Crude Man:
Are you American, European, African, Asian, Australian?

Too personal a question and irrelevant to trading. Surely handsome though.

Quote from Crude Man:
How do you/or your trading improve by helping other traders?

Helping others isn't changing trading much anymore as it is set and almost mechanical.

Quote from Crude Man:
Are you excited/motivated to take on the market everyday?

To some extent. It's a routine job now. Not much emotional involvement. There are way better things to get excited about in life than trading.

Quote from Crude Man:
Lastly, how accurate do you think these stages of trader evolution are: http://www.tischendorf.com/2010/01/16/bo-yoder-and-vadym-graifer-6-stages-of-a-trader/

Very




All answers are the sole responsibility of Gringo. Any errors, emissions, and lies are to be treated with respect.

Gringo

 

[timokrates]

Hinges all over the place...

Reading about them is totally different from acting in terms of the context - that is something that I realized. It seemed that a small light bulb went up today...

As we were in a macro hinge (1000V) ranging could have been expected. Also the direction break of hinges that formed after the open were - after testing the S/D lines would have been expected to go from the outside in.

I don't know if this all makes sense, but for me it was something I realized today. Maybe it was just a typical friday...

 

[fortydraws]

Quote from timokrates:

Hinges all over the place...

Here is how I traded that hinge near the opening high:

Price rallied from the 30.25 higher low, and then twice found sellers more robust and buyers more shy at 32.50. Then price sat at 30.75, and twice stalled just 3 ticks higher at 31.50. That was enough for me to place my sell stop at 30.75 so I'd get a fill, as price at that point seemed more likely to break lower from that hinge rather than higher. I usually exit at the market but in this case I placed what I think is called a "hard stop" stop loss at 31.75, as I thought that price might make a quick break for 33 if buyers started to push price above 31.50.

I was filled short at 3130.75 during the 10:06 bar interval, and flat just four minutes later at 23.35 during the 10:10 bar interval on the test of the opening low. I attached a screen shot of the trade journal from IB to this one, because at this point, even I would be having doubts that I could be hitting all these in real time with hardly ever a loss (I've had a couple of losses - all small, very small compared to my winnings).

 

[jack411]

Quote from fortydraws:

Here is how I traded that hinge near the opening high:

Price rallied from the 30.25 higher low, and then twice found sellers more robust and buyers more shy at 32.50. Then price sat at 30.75, and twice stalled just 3 ticks higher at 31.50. That was enough for me to place my sell stop at 30.75 so I'd get a fill, as price at that point seemed more likely to break lower from that hinge rather than higher. I usually exit at the market but in this case I placed what I think is called a "hard stop" stop loss at 31.75, as I thought that price might make a quick break for 33 if buyers started to push price above 31.50.

I was filled short at 3130.75 during the 10:06 bar interval, and flat just four minutes later at 23.35 during the 10:10 bar interval on the test of the opening low. I attached a screen shot of the trade journal from IB to this one, because at this point, even I would be having doubts that I could be hitting all these in real time with hardly ever a loss (I've had a couple of losses - all small, very small compared to my winnings).

Thanks for sharing. (This question is also for DB too if you happen to see this.)

How do you like to manage your trades once you're in one? Reading through the thread, I have seen DB talk about taking very small losses or sometimes having b/e trades. You mentioned above that your stops are all small. On average how far do you let price move in your favor before tightening a stop or moving it to breakeven?

 

[fortydraws]

Quote from jack411:

Thanks for sharing. (This question is also for DB too if you happen to see this.)

How do you like to manage your trades once you're in one? Reading through the thread, I have seen DB talk about taking very small losses or sometimes having b/e trades. You mentioned above that your stops are all small. On average how far do you let price move in your favor before tightening a stop or moving it to breakeven?

I don't think I am at the point where I should be offering "advice" on how to manage trades, but I'll try to answer with the understanding that this not meant as a "how to" for everyone or anyone but myself.

1) My plan calls for me to stay in a trade as long as price indicates that it will continue to move in the direction of the trade. As DbPhoenix describes it, I look for reasons to stay in the trade. I am not always successful, but I am getting better.

2) My plan does not have any criteria for moving my stop loss. All trades start with a disaster stop, currently 5 points, that will get me out if I am unable to do so on my own and things turn badly for the trade, e.g. I lose internet and price turns against the direction of the trade.

3) I never go to breakeven on my stop loss. My stop loss takes me out in case of disaster. Otherwise, I take myself out. I accomplish this by entering all trades as bracket order. I enter on a stop-limit, and that order has attached a limit order 20 points in my favor and a stop loss 5 points behind me. Once in the trade, I change the limit order to a market order, but I do not hit submit . I sit on that submit button until it is time to get out. I then exit the trade at the market.

I think DbPhoenix would say that if you are worried about when and whyfor to move your stop loss to breakeven, then you are focused on where price has been, and you are not focusing on what price is doing at that very moment.

4) I exit with a market order when I observe price do something that causes me to anticipate that a change in the immediate trend I am trading is likely, e.g. today, price reached the level of the opening low and appeared to be heading to the long side.

5) My small stop loss on this trade was because I entered so close to the danger point and before price had broken free of the hinge.


Neither my plan nor my execution of it is or has been perfect (see my post a day or two back where I exited a short on a limit order at an anticipated S level, though price gave no indication that it was doing more than taking the briefest of pauses before dropping another 15 points).

My journey is a work in progress.

 

[dandxg]

While I haven't been religiously watching and trading I do find return to simple S/R and volume for me works best. This thread is a great reminder

 

[fortydraws]

I'm not going to mark my trading activity on this one just yet. I want to share it here as it is, with just the straight lines that I see in my head.

I think anyone who has followed this thread here, and studied DbPhoenix's Wyckoff discussions at the other message board, and read Wyckoff's course would know without any words of explanation what I was seeing on this chart.

DbPhoenix, I am glad I found you. How fortunate for me that I came upon you early on.

 

[riaamaan]

Quote from fortydraws:

I'm not going to mark my trading activity on this one just yet. I want to share it here as it is, with just the straight lines that I see in my head.

I think anyone who has followed this thread here, and studied DbPhoenix's Wyckoff discussions at the other message board, and read Wyckoff's course would know without any words of explanation what I was seeing on this chart.

DbPhoenix, I am glad I found you. How fortunate for me that I came upon you early on.

Nicely done.

 

[fortydraws]

Today: What I do not show is the long I took soon after the open. Long at 27.75 during the 9:34 bar interval. This long was stopped and reversed to short at29.75 during the 9:40 bar interval. Additional short contracts added 25.75 (9:53), 24 (9:56), 20.25 (10:01). All of which were closed after price made a HL after a test of 3104 yesterday's NY session low (actual low today 4.75: so L4.75 - H9.25 - HL7 so out at 9.50). I took this screen shot an instant after the trade to exit was filled.