"If there were no God, there would be no atheists

Ricter · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from Gabfly1:

... So why, then, would you base your view of the universe and reality on essentially feelings alone?

No one does that. Even the most adamant creationist looks both ways before crossing the street.

These two camps can and should coexist.

BernardRichards · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from Gabfly1:

You can't possibly be serious. And yet, you are.

You are new at ET Gabfly so I am quite serious that you possibly missed those videos.

BTW, we have our very own Jesus here at ET (in vacation lately) so you better watch out. Atheists are on his hit list!

Gabfly1 · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from Ricter:

How about the purely scientific, social Darwinists and other social engineers? No pesky God messing up their clear thinking.

"Social engineers?" "Social Darwinists?" What is your context? Moral decency? If so, then you may wish to compare theists with ethicists.

Gabfly1 · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from Ricter:

No one does that. Even the most adamant creationist looks both ways before crossing the street.

These two camps can and should coexist.

Actually, no. Creationists exist in the gaps of knowledge. The more knowledge that results from progress, the less space there will be for those who thrive in its gaps. Little wonder, then, that they dislike giving ground.

killthesunshine · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from Ricter:

No one does that. Even the most adamant creationist looks both ways before crossing the street.

These two camps can and should coexist.

it behooves the creationist to construct the rational argument replete with evidence.

i's not MY fault or the fault of other rationalists that we disbelieve in every crazy thing that comes down the pike.

it's actually to OUR (rationalist) credit that we challenge assertion.

Free Thinker · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from Ricter:

Ok, don't refer to me on this, but to answer your question... no, I, the Devil's advocate, will not accept a request to use evidence, as defined by science, to evaluate the scientific worldview. I, and many others, feel that there is something more to reality than, "nothing but, nothing but". That you do not feel it also is immaterial, because we continue to feel it. Yes, yes, we could also feel the presence of undetectable talking mushrooms. But, we don't.

the point is that some people probably claim to "feel" the presence of undetectable talking mushrooms. without the concept of evidence all feelings are equaly valid. feeling are simply emotions.

Ricter · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from vhehn:

the point is that some people probably claim to "feel" the presence of undetectable talking mushrooms. without the concept of evidence all feelings are equaly valid. feeling are simply emotions.

Valid is the key word there. I'm not arguing that the scientific worldview is not utilitarian. But clearly it is not meeting all needs.

Gabfly1 · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from Ricter:

Valid is the key word there. I'm not arguing that the scientific worldview is not utilitarian. But clearly it is not meeting all needs.

Okay, but is it necessary to make stuff up from whole cloth to meet those other needs?

If so, then that brings us back to our side order of fringe fries:

Quote from Gabfly1:

Yes, but which fringe wishes to impose more intrusive legislation? Which fringe wishes to hold back life altering medical science and progress? Which fringe has historically been behind mankind's most horrific atrocities? This invisible doggy-in-the-closet has a mean bite.

killthesunshine · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from killthesunshine:

it behooves the creationist to construct the rational argument replete with evidence.

i's not MY fault or the fault of other rationalists that we disbelieve in every crazy thing that comes down the pike.

it's actually to OUR (rationalist) credit that we challenge assertion.

of course i set the impossible task to the theist.. what manner of man can explain the irrational in rational terms

BernardRichards · Dec 9, 2009

Quote from BernardRichards:

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I like Pascal's proof of the supernatural. This will really appeal to my friends, Tressy Nazi Boy Obfuscaty (punch drunk now from the beatings in politics) and Pallywood Sameeh.