If the Marines are indicted should they be sent the Hague for War crimes?

Should the marines be sent to the hague for war crimes?

  • yes

    Votes: 13 46.4%
  • no

    Votes: 15 53.6%

  • Total voters
    28
Did you actually read my responses to you at all? Or are you just on some kind of automatic pilot with your canned Bullshit?

I plainly said to you that at the time when these Marines go to Court Martial then and only then should they be judged by those who have all the facts. Neither you nor the media reports that you quote have all the facts. I don't trust the media... you shouldn't either.

If they are charged and convicted I can assure that they will be severely punished. They'll be punished worse than any criminal in the normal justice system because the UCMJ is one harsh motherfucker.

So you don't have worry your pretty little head about the bad Marines. If they're proven to be guilty they will be punished. If not they won't.

Finally, as if you couldn't tell....I was a Marine. These men are my brothers and I will back them until it's proven that I shouldn't. You on the other hand are a jerk-off troll.

That is all.



Quote from mahram:

dr.zhi this is why I state the marines should be sent to the hague. People here keep saying it was no my lai. But these marines tortured, killed, possibly raped these children. They just didnt kill they executed. They killed 24 people, that we know of. But thanks to coverup by the marines and leadership, we wont know. You keep saying honour, but would honourable men do this. Would hounourable men in leadership and at the camp commit a coverup of a war crime. People at the camp knew, everybody knew. but nobody spoke up. Not till video surfaced up that broke there coverup. The investigation is essentially over, b/c the men had turn on each other all wanting to make deals. How can you morally defend these people. You are defending people covering up war crimes. And any group of people who didnt speak up, and tell the authorities do not deserve my respect. Would you respect anybody that would coverup the murder of a little girl. Not just a murder, an execution, a bullet in her head. Not even in her head, a bullet that blew up her head. That means it was point blank range.


Lance Cpl. Ryan Briones told the Los Angeles Times that he took pictures of at least 15 bodies and is still haunted by the memory of picking up a young girl who was shot in the head. (Full story)

"I held her out like this," he said, demonstrating with his arms extended, "but her head was bobbing up and down and the insides fell on my legs."

Briones' mother, Susie Briones, told CNN her son is now suffering from post-traumatic stress.

"It was horrific," she said. "It was a terrible scene. The biggest thing that comes to his mind is the children.

"Since he was part of the cleanup crew, he had to carry that little girl's body, and her head was blown off," she said. "Her brains splattered on his boots. And that is what affected Brian the most."
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/29/marines.haditha/
 
As much as you wish for America's demise after a few soldiers screwing up, it ain’t gonna happen. I’m waiting until the final conclusions are out but I’ll assume the worst, like you.

But do you think you can use this to invalidate U.S. military policy? Do you think you can use this to invalidate our Iraq mission as a whole? A lot of people out there hope so. Guess what? Their influence is in decline.

I said it before and I’ll say it again: This will not have the legs like Abu Ghraib because enough people realize the utility of a successful Iraq mission outweighs all military incidents and mishaps combined.

You guys are being dishonest when you try to push America to a “higher standard” in military conduct. Any opportunity to make America weak will do, including the perpetuation of guilt and shame necessary to keep America’s hands tied behind its back. That’s what this is all about.
Quote from kissanmakeup:

take it easy sam! first of all, these soldiers witnessed these kids begging for their lives before they executed them.
second, i have no problem with you and your soldiers morally aliening your/ themselves to these islamists but if that is the case, that only enforces my opinion that your soldiers should be treated in the same exact way i would want to treat a low life terrorist.
 
Quote from Sam123:

As much as you wish for America's demise after a few soldiers screwing up, it ain’t gonna happen. I’m waiting until the final conclusions are out but I’ll assume the worst, like you.

who is talking about america's demise. you remind me of all of these beer belly fuckers who line up the streets of major u.s. cities waving american flags while waiting the arrival of crippled american kids only to turn your back to them as soon as the convoy passes you so that you could catch your baseball game at your corner shithole of a bar.
don't talk to me about patriotism you little fuck, i care, worry and support these black and hispanic kids 10 thousands time more than you pretend to do for your white arian race ones.
you want to wait for the conclusion? why? so that you could come up with another excuse of why they did it? you are a dishonest man so fuck what you care and do not care about. your bottom line to to hide the crime and evidences so i really do not care if you wait or not.
these soldiers are rotting on each other; these soldiers are explaining how they killed these babies and you want to wait until the final conclusion.
let me ask you this, if it was concluded that these soldiers killed these babies in cold blood, what would you like to see happening to them? from the pattern of your way of thinking , you will avoid answering this one!


But do you think you can use this to invalidate U.S. military policy? Do you think you can use this to invalidate our Iraq mission as a whole? A lot of people out there hope so. Guess what? Their influence is in decline.

of course i can! when the commanders of these soldiers tried to hide the evidence then the fucking fish is rotting from the head buddy.

I said it before and I’ll say it again: This will not have the legs like Abu Ghraib because enough people realize the utility of a successful Iraq mission outweighs all military incidents and mishaps combined.

that is why i do not give a flying fuck if you wait for the results or not. i know that your intention is to cover up so that you could continue occupying these arabs...my job is to expose you and your type and to make sure that it will come out the surface before you kill it so that justice will prevail.
if we left it in the hands of your like, our grandchildren will be looked down at by afghani kids you morally corrupt fuck.
 
LOL, look at you. You're so worked up over this you can't even edit and repost without slobbering all over it.

isn't that hilarious! like you have given the serbian army the opportunity to conduct and prosecute its own offending soldiers?
LOL, what's hilarious is that you have little to no memory capacity. The tribunal to indict, try, and convict ALL who were involved in Balkan atrocities, not just Serbs, was initiated from a unanimous UN resolution. Not one member nation, including Arabs, voted against it. To accuse the US of being solely responsible shows what little you know, or want to know, when it contradicts your blind hatred for anything American.

The fact that you would even bring this up is hilarious since the atrocities that are being put on trial was committed against Muslims you idiot. The resolution and subsequent tribunal was pleaded for by Croat, Kosovar, Albanian, and Bosnian Muslims. Your blind hatred of the US is seriously starting to disrupt the blood flow to your brain.

i am as equally outraged when a crime against little children is committed by one of the above.
No I don't believe that you are. I think you find it secondary to any reasons for hating the US. After all, I don't see one post by you that even acknowledges that grotesque issues of Muslim on Muslim violence is damaging to your religion, must less how outraged you are by it. Go ahead and prove me wrong by supplying us with some links to previous posts that would hint otherwise.

also, i really appreciate your honestly of equating your soldiers to the above groups and people.
I didn't equate anything. Don't hold my posts in comparison to anything until you can at least comprehend the simple context to which I wrote them. Let me type real slow for you; that might help:

If you want to put American soldiers on trial under the standards that you are using to implicate them under violations of international law, you better start rounding up your Muslim brothers for the same trial least you want to call yourself a hypocrite. You can start with Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLO, Jordanians, Pakistanis, Egyptians, Syrians, and Turks.

you are wrong...hence the rwanda genocide.
????? What the hell does that have to do with this????? If you want to use that as a weak excuse to fuel a blame game, then blame the French for supplying weapons and the Canadians, Ghanaians, Belgians, and the Dutch; they already had troops on the ground and pulled out. But hey, we all know you don't really give a shit about the Rwandans either. They aren't nothing more than pawns for your hate fueled tirades.

but let us say that i am as stupid as you think i am.
No, that's fact. You're babbling proves as much.

would you agree that the american commanders who did the cover-up of such massacre should be sent to the hague?
No, I wouldn't. Last time bonehead: The Hague is reserved for those that orchestrate and sanction atrocities that would otherwise not receive justice due to the absence of law and order within their own country. The US has one and it's called the Code of Military Justice. I assure you, those that are found guilty of any acts of atrocity will get punished and it will be much uglier than anything that exists within any civilian system of law. Military prisons are so harsh, the death penalty is considered a compassionate reprieve.
 
Quote from riserburn:

LOL, look at you. You're so worked up over this you can't even edit and repost without slobbering all over it.

as always, you are not making sense.

LOL, what's hilarious is that you have little to no memory capacity. The tribunal to indict, try, and convict ALL who were involved in Balkan atrocities, not just Serbs, was initiated from a unanimous UN resolution. Not one member nation, including Arabs, voted against it. To accuse the US of being solely responsible shows what little you know, or want to know, when it contradicts your blind hatred for anything American.

given the fact that i am not an arab nor muslim will only serve to show the level of paranoia you are living in.
the u.s was one of the most staunch supporters and backers of such u.n. resolution...i find it ironic that the same country that cried wolf about atrocities committed by the serbs is the same one that sees is appalling that anyone would dare demanding that the same shit should apply to it.
you are an idiot and a hypocrite riser. you still did not answer the question, if such treatment was applied, due to american pressure and influence in the u.n., why are you refusing it to your own killers?
y

The fact that you would even bring this up is hilarious since the atrocities that are being put on trial was committed against Muslims you idiot. The resolution and subsequent tribunal was pleaded for by Croat, Kosovar, Albanian, and Bosnian Muslims. Your blind hatred of the US is seriously starting to disrupt the blood flow to your brain.

muslims or not.. that war was a civil war, atrocities were committed by all parties yet your state, due to its interest in the region, found it appropriate to prosecute the serbs. when the issue of other atrocities were raised, some croats were brought in just to save face.

No I don't believe that you are. I think you find it secondary to any reasons for hating the US. After all, I don't see one post by you that even acknowledges that grotesque issues of Muslim on Muslim violence is damaging to your religion, must less how outraged you are by it. Go ahead and prove me wrong by supplying us with some links to previous posts that would hint otherwise.

it once again comes down to your paranoia and corrupted morality. to you, everyone should be as corrupted as you are.
the american soldiers issue is most important to me because i live here. it saddens me that morally corrupted people like you are setting the bar of what should and shouldn't be done...not what ethically right or wrong.
no sir, you are not the one that decides, you could express your raciest and corrupt views but by god, we, the collective masses will save this place for you and your like.

If you want to put American soldiers on trial under the standards that you are using to implicate them under violations of international law, you better start rounding up your Muslim brothers for the same trial least you want to call yourself a hypocrite. You can start with Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLO, Jordanians, Pakistanis, Egyptians, Syrians, and Turks.

we should! anyone who kills civilian in cold blood...especially children should be brought to justice...no question in my mind.
stop beating around the bushes sissy...if these soldiers committed such animalistic crimes and if their commanders hid them from us, should we apply the same rules we apply to other criminals or not. stop being a coward and answer.

????? What the hell does that have to do with this????? If you want to use that as a weak excuse to fuel a blame game, then blame the French for supplying weapons and the Canadians, Ghanaians, Belgians, and the Dutch; they already had troops on the ground and pulled out. But hey, we all know you don't really give a shit about the Rwandans either. They aren't nothing more than pawns for your hate fueled tirades.

idiot...stop bragging about your limited knowledge...i was talking about the little foot irregular soldiers who participated in these massacres. the same whole world who watched in silence while the massacre happened, took pride in parading these killers on tv for all of us to watch in the hague.
if the french, dutch and others were proven to have participated in such crimes then the whole world should hang them from their balls. but, in that particular genocide...they did not!

No, that's fact. You're babbling proves as much.

No, I wouldn't. Last time bonehead: The Hague is reserved for those that orchestrate and sanction atrocities that would otherwise not receive justice due to the absence of law and order within their own country.

perfect fuck face...these soldiers will not be prosecuted to the fullest extend of their crime...i and the rest of the world know that.
had these killers went to a home in u.s suburbia and killed american white kids in the same manner they did with these iraqi children, you would've been gung ho about frying them to death but due to your racism...klansboy...you are outraged that people like me are asking for them to be prosecuted to the fullest extend.
when i trust the american military courts to do so then i would cease my argument.

I assure you, those that are found guilty of any acts of atrocity will get punished and it will be much uglier than anything that exists within any civilian system of law. Military prisons are so harsh, the death penalty is considered a compassionate reprieve.

as i said above, the whole world should know that we do not take easy crimes in such magnitude...until then, i will bow my head in shame for being an american.
 
I think these guys are guilty as hell and liars to boot. There's WAY more than enough to charge. And WAY more than enough for pretrial confinement. Shoot a bunch of unarmed people here and you'd be locked up in all 50 states from the getgo. That's what cops and prosecutors in the real world go for - - they prejudge (very accurately most of the time) and go after the suspects -- not coddle them like these military pussies that apparently hoped Time Magazine and the rest would just go away. Losers.

I wonder where they are now. I can't tell from the reports I've looked at.
 
you are an idiot and a hypocrite riser. you still did not answer the question, if such treatment was applied, due to american pressure and influence in the u.n., why are you refusing it to your own killers? ...............stop beating around the bushes sissy...if these soldiers committed such animalistic crimes and if their commanders hid them from us, should we apply the same rules we apply to other criminals or not. stop being a coward and answer.
Yes I have. I have already answered your question to this issue on my original post in this thread and the last one. It's clearly nobody's fault you can't comprehend what you read but you. Get hooked on phonics if you must, but you have some serious issues with reading comprehension.

no sir, you are not the one that decides, you could express your raciest and corrupt views but by god, we, the collective masses will save this place for you and your like.
LOL, no you won't. You are going to stay right where you are at, pecking away incomprehensibly at your keyboard, pretending to everyone here how morally intelligent you are on this issue and every other one you choose to stammer in. The masses in this country could care less about what happens in their lives as long as they get their fast food, cheap beer and gas, and who's singing tonight on American Idol (more people voted in the final episode than both presidential candidates got combined). You are a fool to believe that they even care enough to watch the news much share your aspirations to "save" this place to your liking.

perfect fuck face...these soldiers will not be prosecuted to the fullest extend of their crime...i and the rest of the world know that.
My, what a potty mouth you have. You are sooo much the perfect example of the "saviour" mentality this country is searching for.

Like I said before, the marines, if found guilty, will be punished according to the code of military conduct; NOT according to your's or anyone else's standards of justice. I also explained why. If you don't like it, tough shit; get over it. If you can't get over it; they make medication for that.

...you are outraged that people like me
I'm not outraged. I'm amused. I have repeatedly told you what the due process of military punishment is and why it exists in the manner that it does. I have even gone to the extent to explain why that process is misunderstood and how one can go about understanding it. No where in this thread will you find me condoning or belittling the gravity of this issue. I don't know how more plainly I can put it. If you still don't get it, then it's no other problem but your own. However, as indicated by this:

i will bow my head in shame for being an american.

I would wager that you have much more serious personal issues to worry about than dead women and children and who is going to get punished for what.
 
Quote from mahram:

If the marines are indicted, in about 3 weeks should they be sent to the hague for war crimes and violating the geneva convention?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...es28may28,0,2689.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Interesting philosophical discussion. However, it rests totally on a foundation of quicksand.

Whatever your political position may be, the due process clause of U.S. Constitution trumps any treaty made by the U.S. Government. All U.S. Citizens, including members of the U.S. Military, are entitled to adjudication of a charge of criminal activity in a court which applies the law of the U.S., prior to a final deprivation of life, liberty or property, whether the charge is shoplifting or war crimes against humanity (except, of course, for "enemy combatants," whose actual constitutional rights are still very much in question, as the U.S. Supreme Court has yet to definitively rule on their status under the Constitution).

Thus, it is simply a violation of the 6th Amendment right to a fair trial, which includes the right to be tried by a jury of one's peers, and to have each and every element of the charge found by the jury beyond reasonable doubt, the right to effective counsel, the 5th Amendment right to be free from compelled self incriminating testimony, the 8th Amendment right to reasonable bail, to be free from excessive fines and cruel and inhuman punishment, and so forth and so on.

Because such protections cannot be guaranteed at the Hague, and which does not apply the general principles of procedure, evidence, burden of proof, etc., as required by the due process clause, the soldiers cannot be transferred to the World Court for war crimes.

That is, not without amending the U.S. Constitution.
 
Practically speaking, how many citizens of a country that have overthrown the resident government would then be sent to the Hague for war crimes by their own government who directed the invasion and occupation?

Seems to me that generally those who lost a war or are overthrown become Hague bait...

Maybe Milosevic tried to make a claim that he wasn't to be tried for crimes, and we know Saddam doesn't think the court that he is being tried at has the power to try him.

The losers go to court, the winners tend to hold those court....

All the legal mumbo jumbo about US Constitutional rights wouldn't mean a thing if the Marines were captured by an enemy government that the US had lost to.

Possession of greater military might, seems to be more than 9/10ths of the law....

Quote from kjkent1:

Interesting philosophical discussion. However, it rests totally on a foundation of quicksand.

Whatever your political position may be, the due process clause of U.S. Constitution trumps any treaty made by the U.S. Government. All U.S. Citizens, including members of the U.S. Military, are entitled to adjudication of a charge of criminal activity in a court which applies the law of the U.S., prior to a final deprivation of life, liberty or property, whether the charge is shoplifting or war crimes against humanity (except, of course, for "enemy combatants," whose actual constitutional rights are still very much in question, as the U.S. Supreme Court has yet to definitively rule on their status under the Constitution).

Thus, it is simply a violation of the 6th Amendment right to a fair trial, which includes the right to be tried by a jury of one's peers, and to have each and every element of the charge found by the jury beyond reasonable doubt, the right to effective counsel, the 5th Amendment right to be free from compelled self incriminating testimony, the 8th Amendment right to reasonable bail, to be free from excessive fines and cruel and inhuman punishment, and so forth and so on.

Because such protections cannot be guaranteed at the Hague, and which does not apply the general principles of procedure, evidence, burden of proof, etc., as required by the due process clause, the soldiers cannot be transferred to the World Court for war crimes.

That is, not without amending the U.S. Constitution.
 
Quote from kissanmakeup:

no sir, you are not the one that decides, you could express your <b>raciest</b> and corrupt views but by god, we, the collective masses will save this place for you and your like.

[/B]


<b>Hmmm... now where have I seen the word 'racist' misspelled this way before....?</b>

Quote from WAEL012000:



According to many jews, your Zionist ideology has drawn many of its tactics of dehumanization and Cunningness from the Nazis. There are some Jewish historians who draw direct factual connection between the<b> raciest</b> Zionist ideology and that of the Nazi.



Quote from WAEL012000:


The reason for your attitude is simple! on one side, it is convenient to portray yourself as a member of this poor and meek nation who is treated by this "EVIL NATION" while it is not convenient for you to be PART of <b>raciest</b> camp that you share a bed with.

I could easilly, as you know by now, post many racist qoutes made by Neoconservative poloticians, including Danial Pipe, that could emphisize my point.

By the way, how come you never felt offended by the <b>raciest</b> remarks made by the Israeli Shas spiritual leader?


http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/searc...=1225248&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

<b>Ahalan Wael! Kif halak ya zalami?</b> :D
 
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