If something is easy...
- Thread starter travis
- Start date
Travis and all others, I hope you take this message as just food for thought, because I gave up trying to be right a while ago.
I was also raised in the Catholic church and it is funny the coincidence that I also have a problem with saving money. Actually I have never had a savings account per se. All the money that I have made with my left hand I have thrown out the window with my right hand. Not only that, I have made sure to throw more money away with my right that what I have made with my left for years. At the end of each year always finding myself in a deficit and trying to rationalize my behavior, concluding that it was good, that by doing it I was pushing myself to make more money the next year and that this was the way I was using to push my way forward, and of course why worry if I was going to be a millionaire next year....haha.
Well, every year I made more money and more money but always had the same result at the end. So I gave up.
I have also gone out my way all my life inviting friends and family to whatever we are doing. Now that I have read your issue, and how similar it is to mine, I have thought the following, what do you think?
We were brain washed when we were very little by our religion to believe that money is the root of all evil. Because of our specific personality, this has a very large meaning in our mind. We must believe internally at the core that if money is the root of all evil, then money has to be evil. So when we are out with friends and we pay the bill, we are not doing it because we care ' so much' or because we are so 'generous' but we are doing it for ourselves, to release us from the 'evil' money. The same way it works with trading profits, once we get something or somewhere our subconscious brain goes into overdrive to make sure we get rid of the 'evil' money again. It also makes sure we don't act in our best interest financially when we are supposed to.
If money is evil in our deepest subconscious mind, and we equate money with success how in the hell are we ever going to truly achieve success and more importantly remain successful. Based on this premise it would be crazy to want to be successful, or for god's sakes actually achieve success. Scary stuff indeed.
In studying Livermore we could conclude he probably had the same problem. His subconscious never accepted the money he made and that is the reason why he ended up losing it all every time.
If you haven't read Atlas Shrugged I recommend it, I only read it a few months ago, wish I would have when I was a teenager, chances are my life around money would have been much different.
Just food for thought and comments..
Cheers
I have written this down in my trade log. Will try it. Thanks.
Yeah, Optionpro007, you made very good points. I agree once again. Actually it was like reading what I think so I was forgetting to tell you that I agree, because I felt like I had written it.
It's not just that deep inside I think that money is the root of all evil.
I think I have a problem with happiness or anything that will bring me happiness (then money, too, of course). I have a problem with enjoying myself, and even with relaxing. I have a problem with feeling good.
Maybe it's the Catholic upbringing, but maybe also it has to do with being used to working hard, and being told to work hard, all my life.
In a sense I was brought up to believe not only that having fun is a sin, but that if you waste your time having fun instead of working hard all the time, you're indeed wasting time, and one day you will get screwed because you didn't work hard enough and problems you didn't foresee caught up with you and caught you off guard.
I still remember one day, ten years ago, when I was talking on the phone with my dad from overseas and told him "I am very happy - I got a girlfriend, I have a job I like...". After a brief pause, he replied, "... All you have is your health, and you don't know how long that will last". In other words "always keep working hard, keep the pressure on yourself up, and never relax or enjoy yourself". That's how I was brought up.
I think it's crazy, and I think it's counterproductive (because it makes you frustrated as hell, and that in turn leads you to self-destruction), but somehow it's still inside my head. Maybe once again you have similar problems.
What should also be added though is that I managed to create very good trading systems only because I did in fact work my ass off until now. But what is the point of still being like this now? I mean it's not like I am in college and I am saying "just one more effort till I graduate". Here it's more like saying "just one more effort until I die". And that is how my dad has lived all his life.
What is the point of postponing forever my happiness and my emotional reward? That is what my dad did to me, by never telling me "good job" - postponing the reward ("you can do better" type of attitude). He seemed to have postponed that "good job" forever. But the problem is that now I am doing the same with myself. I have been wasting my life by accumulating things and knowledge and awards, without never enjoying them. In my family no one even celebrates birthdays.
The fact that I am see my problem so clearly now, does not mean I will ever solve it, because the problem is in my mind, and the tendency is to keep it in there (like slouching or like all bad habits). And realizing it once in a while is not enough to get rid of it. We need therapy, we need rehab, we need to be around people who are different than us. On top of everything, I am antisocial, too, which prevented me from changing in the first place.
You say "success"... to me that's another word for the same problem. Success means happiness, happines is a sin and brings superficiality and slacking off. So success, in my own sick subconscious, must be avoided, because I'll relax then. So I must get better and better and postpone success as long as possible. Like actors or directors who start doing bad movies once they become successful. Of course I said a lot of not so precise and true things and made a lot of generalizations, but I am sure you get my point.
It's not just that deep inside I think that money is the root of all evil.
I think I have a problem with happiness or anything that will bring me happiness (then money, too, of course). I have a problem with enjoying myself, and even with relaxing. I have a problem with feeling good.
Maybe it's the Catholic upbringing, but maybe also it has to do with being used to working hard, and being told to work hard, all my life.
In a sense I was brought up to believe not only that having fun is a sin, but that if you waste your time having fun instead of working hard all the time, you're indeed wasting time, and one day you will get screwed because you didn't work hard enough and problems you didn't foresee caught up with you and caught you off guard.
I still remember one day, ten years ago, when I was talking on the phone with my dad from overseas and told him "I am very happy - I got a girlfriend, I have a job I like...". After a brief pause, he replied, "... All you have is your health, and you don't know how long that will last". In other words "always keep working hard, keep the pressure on yourself up, and never relax or enjoy yourself". That's how I was brought up.
I think it's crazy, and I think it's counterproductive (because it makes you frustrated as hell, and that in turn leads you to self-destruction), but somehow it's still inside my head. Maybe once again you have similar problems.
What should also be added though is that I managed to create very good trading systems only because I did in fact work my ass off until now. But what is the point of still being like this now? I mean it's not like I am in college and I am saying "just one more effort till I graduate". Here it's more like saying "just one more effort until I die". And that is how my dad has lived all his life.
What is the point of postponing forever my happiness and my emotional reward? That is what my dad did to me, by never telling me "good job" - postponing the reward ("you can do better" type of attitude). He seemed to have postponed that "good job" forever. But the problem is that now I am doing the same with myself. I have been wasting my life by accumulating things and knowledge and awards, without never enjoying them. In my family no one even celebrates birthdays.
The fact that I am see my problem so clearly now, does not mean I will ever solve it, because the problem is in my mind, and the tendency is to keep it in there (like slouching or like all bad habits). And realizing it once in a while is not enough to get rid of it. We need therapy, we need rehab, we need to be around people who are different than us. On top of everything, I am antisocial, too, which prevented me from changing in the first place.
You say "success"... to me that's another word for the same problem. Success means happiness, happines is a sin and brings superficiality and slacking off. So success, in my own sick subconscious, must be avoided, because I'll relax then. So I must get better and better and postpone success as long as possible. Like actors or directors who start doing bad movies once they become successful. Of course I said a lot of not so precise and true things and made a lot of generalizations, but I am sure you get my point.
I'm not sure if this is direct advice that will help you, but, from my own experience trading. I have blown up because the money I made came "too easily," however I don't have an upbringing like yours so I was able after a few cycles to get it out of my system.
Be more patient in waiting for a challenge. That is to say, if you have 3 successful months, and blow it all away because it was too easy, you aren't realizing that the market itself is going to throw some very serious challenges at you - dry spots, horrible draw downs, technical glitches where you stuck with a big position you didn't want - even for the most successful automated traders, it is always a challenge.
It is in your nature to always need a challenge. You may not be able to change that. But when you can convince yourself (and this is true), that the markets itself will provide enough of a challenge - even if you're consistent, it won't be easy - perhaps you'll be content with coping with the challenges thrown at you by the market and realize you don't need and are incapable of handling more challenges.
Be more patient in waiting for a challenge. That is to say, if you have 3 successful months, and blow it all away because it was too easy, you aren't realizing that the market itself is going to throw some very serious challenges at you - dry spots, horrible draw downs, technical glitches where you stuck with a big position you didn't want - even for the most successful automated traders, it is always a challenge.
It is in your nature to always need a challenge. You may not be able to change that. But when you can convince yourself (and this is true), that the markets itself will provide enough of a challenge - even if you're consistent, it won't be easy - perhaps you'll be content with coping with the challenges thrown at you by the market and realize you don't need and are incapable of handling more challenges.
It's very reasonable. And yes, the money was too easy. First of all because trading is easy - I mean you just push a button. Second, any money that is made from trading is extra money because I don't live from trading (and that may be the problem or not). Third. I have been trading for 10 years. I lost money for the first 9 years, believe it or not. So I am so used to losing money, that making money makes me uncomfortable. I don't know what to come up with to spend it, and maybe unconsciously I am afraid it will disrupt my life (see above posts, mine and Option's).
Actually, I re-read it and it's crazy but that is a big truth I just said. For all these years, I was making a few extra hundred dollars at work, which I didn't need to live. Trading, in my own crazy subconscious, was the perfect way to get rid of those few extra hundred dollars I made each month. I lost them. (Or maybe I am wrong, and I was just doing the wrong things, and didn't lose them on purpose). Now that instead of losing them, I make, on top of my job, another few hundreds more with trading I got even more problems, so to speak. I started going to the most expensive restaurants, taking cabs all the time... now I even started making bad trades on my own, which brought my account to zero again a couple of times already in the past year.
Making money, the system working... I am having problems getting used to that. It gives me some problems sleeping... instead I slept better when I lost everything every month. The responsibility of being successful now that I can, the dream coming true, makes me nervous. I see it coming true and all I do is worry about all sorts of things - taxes, people kidnapping me...
Ultimately I think I will learn and adapt. I mean, I am positive I will learn not to interfere with the system, one way or another, and if that will make money, I will ultimately adapt to having money and being "successful", and I may learn to relax, and all the other things I have been postponing until now. I can't say I'll be happy, because that is quite far from my habits, but if I'll relax that will be a lot. I wish I could relax enough to forget my keys or something like that. Instead until now I have been so tense and so in control of everything around me (technically a control freak, if anyone knows what it means).
I thought of those actresses, regarded as sex symbols. Sometimes when they get interviewed they say that in highschool they were considered ugly. Maybe they'll feel ugly all their life, but they too learn to accept success and whatever they can get. They don't reject success now just because in highschool they weren't popular. So people may change. I hope so.
Actually, I re-read it and it's crazy but that is a big truth I just said. For all these years, I was making a few extra hundred dollars at work, which I didn't need to live. Trading, in my own crazy subconscious, was the perfect way to get rid of those few extra hundred dollars I made each month. I lost them. (Or maybe I am wrong, and I was just doing the wrong things, and didn't lose them on purpose). Now that instead of losing them, I make, on top of my job, another few hundreds more with trading I got even more problems, so to speak. I started going to the most expensive restaurants, taking cabs all the time... now I even started making bad trades on my own, which brought my account to zero again a couple of times already in the past year.
Making money, the system working... I am having problems getting used to that. It gives me some problems sleeping... instead I slept better when I lost everything every month. The responsibility of being successful now that I can, the dream coming true, makes me nervous. I see it coming true and all I do is worry about all sorts of things - taxes, people kidnapping me...
Ultimately I think I will learn and adapt. I mean, I am positive I will learn not to interfere with the system, one way or another, and if that will make money, I will ultimately adapt to having money and being "successful", and I may learn to relax, and all the other things I have been postponing until now. I can't say I'll be happy, because that is quite far from my habits, but if I'll relax that will be a lot. I wish I could relax enough to forget my keys or something like that. Instead until now I have been so tense and so in control of everything around me (technically a control freak, if anyone knows what it means).
I thought of those actresses, regarded as sex symbols. Sometimes when they get interviewed they say that in highschool they were considered ugly. Maybe they'll feel ugly all their life, but they too learn to accept success and whatever they can get. They don't reject success now just because in highschool they weren't popular. So people may change. I hope so.
The principles outlined in the book âThe Science of Getting Richâ by Wallace D. Wattles are based around thinking a certain way, and acting a certain way, in the name of abundant goodness for all. (Making it is not about working hard)
The Catholic Church was correct in their âtrainingâ to avoid negative temptations, and evil itself. But, evidently, failed to condition parishioners to focusing on attracting and sharing goodness into their lives. Therefore, the aphorism, âMoney is the root of all evilâ was retained in belief systems only half trained. The antithesis neglected is, âMoney is the root of all goodnessâ, and it is paramount.
The story of Adam and Eve, it was Eve who succumbed to temptation, and was seen as the weaker sex that evil can first enter. This allegory puts the blame on Eve, although, Adam couldnât resist the temptations of Eve. It is up to men to seek goodness in a woman. âA woman can make a manâ, or âA woman can break a manâ. Hopefully, High School years gives both young men and women a good start developing and identifying a purpose beyond getting laid.
Having fun is a sin? (Yes/No) Again, is the fun serving a life of meaningful joy and goodness?
A Mothers, or Fathers, direct, and/or indirect, messages can have an everlasting influence on ones behavior. Part of growing up is designing your own adult life that serves your purpose, beliefs, and values. It is hard not to be influenced by others expectations after being conditioned to listen, and/or asking permission, since birth.
Remembering talking to your Dad ten years ago, and the affect it may have had on you is identifying where you need to take the reigns of your own life. Parents are good at giving guilt trips to their children, and children accept guilt trips put upon themselves, but this is where you must realize that even if you do exactly opposite their selfish wishes (with good intentions), they will eventually respect you for being your own man. The frustration will pass after face your Dad; tell him that you respect his values, but that you are making your own decisions.
Dads are proud of what they have built, and the family created. It worked for your Dad, and he wants you to take the âRightâ path. But this is where you have got to find the strength to break away. (Let your requests be known to God, not your Dad) When the lord provides you with your desires, it will be in reach. He is not going to give it to you. You need to take possession of it with your own action. Donât reject his gifts.
Only when you take the reigns of your own life will you eventually share your new happiness, and joy, with people you care about. Avoid hanging around negative, or begrudging, people. They will find ways to stop you from changing, or attracting positive people who share your enthusiasm and joy.
Fear of success? Fear of new responsibilities? Oh, man! Wonder if an Alqiada cell kidnapped you and made you trade for them? I would concentrate on using these negative-destructive thoughts as cues, or triggers, to change from evil to good positive thinking knowing that this world will be made better with a money making good person who will have the means to spread the joy.
Feeling frustrated, and being overly hyped, will eventually subside if you work on it.
Job 36:11
If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
PSALMS 37:4
Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Deuteronomy 1:8
Behold. I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land, which the Lord sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.
Proverbs: 23:7
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
Matthew 7:7,8
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Philippian 4:6, 18
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odor of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
The Catholic Church was correct in their âtrainingâ to avoid negative temptations, and evil itself. But, evidently, failed to condition parishioners to focusing on attracting and sharing goodness into their lives. Therefore, the aphorism, âMoney is the root of all evilâ was retained in belief systems only half trained. The antithesis neglected is, âMoney is the root of all goodnessâ, and it is paramount.
The story of Adam and Eve, it was Eve who succumbed to temptation, and was seen as the weaker sex that evil can first enter. This allegory puts the blame on Eve, although, Adam couldnât resist the temptations of Eve. It is up to men to seek goodness in a woman. âA woman can make a manâ, or âA woman can break a manâ. Hopefully, High School years gives both young men and women a good start developing and identifying a purpose beyond getting laid.
Having fun is a sin? (Yes/No) Again, is the fun serving a life of meaningful joy and goodness?
A Mothers, or Fathers, direct, and/or indirect, messages can have an everlasting influence on ones behavior. Part of growing up is designing your own adult life that serves your purpose, beliefs, and values. It is hard not to be influenced by others expectations after being conditioned to listen, and/or asking permission, since birth.
Remembering talking to your Dad ten years ago, and the affect it may have had on you is identifying where you need to take the reigns of your own life. Parents are good at giving guilt trips to their children, and children accept guilt trips put upon themselves, but this is where you must realize that even if you do exactly opposite their selfish wishes (with good intentions), they will eventually respect you for being your own man. The frustration will pass after face your Dad; tell him that you respect his values, but that you are making your own decisions.
Dads are proud of what they have built, and the family created. It worked for your Dad, and he wants you to take the âRightâ path. But this is where you have got to find the strength to break away. (Let your requests be known to God, not your Dad) When the lord provides you with your desires, it will be in reach. He is not going to give it to you. You need to take possession of it with your own action. Donât reject his gifts.
Only when you take the reigns of your own life will you eventually share your new happiness, and joy, with people you care about. Avoid hanging around negative, or begrudging, people. They will find ways to stop you from changing, or attracting positive people who share your enthusiasm and joy.
Fear of success? Fear of new responsibilities? Oh, man! Wonder if an Alqiada cell kidnapped you and made you trade for them? I would concentrate on using these negative-destructive thoughts as cues, or triggers, to change from evil to good positive thinking knowing that this world will be made better with a money making good person who will have the means to spread the joy.
Feeling frustrated, and being overly hyped, will eventually subside if you work on it.
Job 36:11
If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
PSALMS 37:4
Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Deuteronomy 1:8
Behold. I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land, which the Lord sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.
Proverbs: 23:7
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
Matthew 7:7,8
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Philippian 4:6, 18
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odor of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
"To think health when surrounded by the appearances of disease, or to think
riches when in the midst of appearances of poverty, requires power; but he who
acquires this power becomes a MASTER MIND. He can conquer fate; he can
have what he wants."
Above is from page 19 of "The Science of Getting Rich" Hard work is thinking properly, not labor.
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/scienceofgettingrich.pdf
Below is from page 23.
Get rid of the idea that God wants you to sacrifice yourself for others, and that
you can secure his favor by doing so; God requires nothing of the kind.
What he wants is that you should make the most of yourself, for yourself, and for others; and you can help others more by making the most of yourself than in any other way.
riches when in the midst of appearances of poverty, requires power; but he who
acquires this power becomes a MASTER MIND. He can conquer fate; he can
have what he wants."
Above is from page 19 of "The Science of Getting Rich" Hard work is thinking properly, not labor.
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/scienceofgettingrich.pdf
Below is from page 23.
Get rid of the idea that God wants you to sacrifice yourself for others, and that
you can secure his favor by doing so; God requires nothing of the kind.
What he wants is that you should make the most of yourself, for yourself, and for others; and you can help others more by making the most of yourself than in any other way.