If Obama were a leftist...

You know what, I'll say it. Obama is not an extreme leftist. I do believe he has some very extreme leftists in his administration. What Obama really is, is an empty suit. A phony. A vacuum cleaner salesman. He's a narcissist of the highest order. He believes in nothing but power and vanity. He talks out of both sides of his crooked mouth. He'll make a deal with the devil and then smile and give a poignant speech about change.

No, Obama is certainly not an extreme leftist. To be that, you have to believe in something. You have to have core values. He does not. That's what pisses off the right so much. Is that this phony can sell nothing so effectively. It's the same phoniness that Bill Clinton had.

And you know what the irony is here. The thing that drives the left crazy is when someone actually does believe in something. Bush may have been a fuckup and an incompetent President, but he actually believed in his policies. And that pissed off the left.

The left doesn't trust Obama and neither does the right. What a wonderful leadership quality that must be to have. To instill trust in no one. No, Obama is certainly not an extreme leftist. He'll make a deal with anyone in exchange for votes, more power, more prestige. At the end of the day, this country got exactly what it deserved. A snake in a suit with a big smile and a promise of change. PT Barnum had nothing on this guy.
 
You're analysis is something I have considered, and is a possibility. I didn't support Obama in 2008, primarily because I felt something was missing. I didn't like the way people idolized him, just like I had a problem with the Ron Paulites.

I thought Obama needed more time in the senate to mature and do something, and give the people time to see what he could actually do.

Is Obama as you described?

Maybe. He certainly is not a leftist. Time will tell I suppose, but I have seen a professional actor elected twice in America to the presidency, so I can never rule out the stupidity of the electorate to chose image over substance.

So much is going to hinge on who the republican candidate will be, and if there is a strong third party wingbagger.

Of course, if the economy and everything else is in the shitter, then regime change is very likely no matter who they put up on the republican side.

Did most people think America would elect a half black man with the name Obama to be president?

Just goes to show how bad Bush and the republicans poisoned the well...

p.s. I am not convinced that Bush was as much of a true believer in his policies as you say. A fuckup and incompetent no question.

Quote from Maverick74:

You know what, I'll say it. Obama is not an extreme leftist. I do believe he has some very extreme leftists in his administration. What Obama really is, is an empty suit. A phony. A vacuum cleaner salesman. He's a narcissist of the highest order. He believes in nothing but power and vanity. He talks out of both sides of his crooked mouth. He'll make a deal with the devil and then smile and give a poignant speech about change.

No, Obama is certainly not an extreme leftist. To be that, you have to believe in something. You have to have core values. He does not. That's what pisses off the right so much. Is that this phony can sell nothing so effectively. It's the same phoniness that Bill Clinton had.

And you know what the irony is here. The thing that drives the left crazy is when someone actually does believe in something. Bush may have been a fuckup and an incompetent President, but he actually believed in his policies. And that pissed off the left.

The left doesn't trust Obama and neither does the right. What a wonderful leadership quality that must be to have. To instill trust in no one. No, Obama is certainly not an extreme leftist. He'll make a deal with anyone in exchange for votes, more power, more prestige. At the end of the day, this country got exactly what it deserved. A snake in a suit with a big smile and a promise of change. PT Barnum had nothing on this guy.
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Quote from OPTIONAL777:

To an extremist like you, of course anything left of Ann counter is left wing.

To moderates, Obama's actions are mostly moderate, leaning left. However, the extreme left is not happy with Obama.

Will the extreme left abandon Obama in 2012?

They might, if and only if the republican choice appeals to them, or if there is a strong true left wing candidate they would vote for...like the 3% who voted for Nader and influenced the Bush/Gore election.

However, if you take a detached view, it is easy to see that Obama is more of a centrist than anything else.

He is not a leftist by any reasonable measure, your measure is that of an extremist right winger.

I know that a reasonable point of view won't work for extremists like you, especially when your head is fill with the daily Rush, Fox News type of information.

But in reality, there is a far right, a moderate right, a pure moderate, a moderate left, and a leftist.

Obama is not a leftist...for if he were he would have:

See list above.
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the typical joke.

A commie like zzz thinks I am an extremist because I wanted a balanced budget, a smaller federal govt.

a commie like zzz does not understand... no commie programs work or bring prosperity in the long run... which is why raising taxes does not bring in more revenue or lift standard when people already have our tax burden.

The government needs to lose weight get trim and get back in shape with business growth -- then if it wants to go to single payer it might work.

But note, the same guys who own the right just proved they own the left. it will never work as long as your liberal and socialist congress people can be bought by insurance companies, drug companies and wall street.
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

1. We would not be in Iraq or Afghanistan today.
2. We would have government mandates for green energy.
3. We would have a government single payer health care plan, not Obamacare.
4. We would already increased taxes on the top 2%.
5. We would have investigations and arrests and convictions of the real cause of the financial crisis.
6. We would not care about Israel all that much.
7. We would not have corporate welfare.
8. We would have normalized relationships with Cuba, and even gone so far as to make them the 58th state (ooooops).

Please feel free to add to the list of things Obama would have done if he actually had been a leftist.
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Incremental Socialism --- A Glimpse of the Big Picture

Robert P. Gervais, MD



"Health care reform is phased in by population, beginning with children.... Kids First is really a precursor to the new system."(1)

The "new system" which is being slowly and incrementally imposed on all of us is none other than socialism. The latter, as will be shown, is not limited to health care. To find evidence of this fact all one need do is peruse various government documents pertaining to daycare centers, schools and its associated school-based clinics, kidcare and labor to uncover that a variety of programs, primarily focused on, but not limited to children, are currently being implemented which will have the effect of propelling us towards the statist goal of a totally managed economy.(2)

For statists, total control of society cannot begin too early. That is why California daycare centers are being targeted for total takeover. The latter will probably serve as the template to be imposed on all states. Evidence of this government consolidation can be found in a document entitled "California Children and Families First Initiative."(3).......

http://www.jpands.org/hacienda/gervais.html
 
I want a balanced budget too.

How could that be done? Raise taxes, and cut spending on the military, on kickbacks to corporations, on farm subsidies.

We agree with the goal, we just don't agree with the way in which to get there.

Who actually benefits from budget deficits? When did we really start to see this process become a way of life?

It began with Reagan, and it was, and has been the republican way for a long time since then. Why? Because it forces the government to generate bonds, which the wealthy then purchase.

Look, we could default on our loans...and who would get screwed the most? The poor, or the wealthy?

So, it is the bond holders that have the motivation (and the bond marketers/sellers on Wall Street) that continue to want to see the government borrow money.

It is all about the interest on bonds going to those who want not to work for a living, but to live on the interest of bonds. Something, that by the way, is condemned in the Bible...I've already offered those quotes to you in another thread.

Quote from jem:

the typical joke.

A commie like zzz thinks I am an extremist because I wanted a balanced budget, a smaller federal govt.

a commie like zzz does not understand... no commie programs work or bring prosperity in the long run... which is why raising taxes does not bring in more revenue or lift standard when people already have our tax burden.

The government needs to lose weight get trim and get back in shape with business growth -- then if it wants to go to single payer it might work.

But note, the same guys who own the right just proved they own the left. it will never work as long as your liberal and socialist congress people can be bought by insurance companies, drug companies and wall street.
More...
 
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