If my retirement gets nationalized

Quote from da-net:

People are "Sheep" today and most have no backbone and are willing to be herded by the government. Everyone living in the USA should hold their head in shame that they are willing to give up without even a modest objection what our fore fathers fought so hard to obtain for all of us. They gave up everything in their struggle to get what they have given us and we are so lazy that we are willing to let it go without a fight.

We have become the "Eloi" in H.G. Wells' tale.
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Well-written, Da-Net. After drafting the original Constitution, a woman asked Benjamin Franklin "What have you given us?"

He replied, "A republic, Ma'am, if you can KEEP IT."

Scary.

Part of the problem is that most of the CRETINS that call themselves Americans think we live in a "democracy," which is, of course, false.
 
What the US really needs are laws keeping the "lawyers" from interfering with the markets....

"Interference with public markets" should be criminal with no time boundaries....

If this were in "law" maybe "they" would understand it....
 
I nominate this post as Off Topic Post of the Year. :)

Quote from MAESTRO:

Gibbon's theory

Gibbon offers an explanation for why the Roman Empire fell, a task made difficult by a lack of comprehensive written sources, though he was not the only historian to tackle the subject. Most of his ideas are directly taken from what few relevant records were available: those of the Roman moralists of the 4th and 5th centuries. According to Gibbon, the Roman Empire succumbed to barbarian invasions in large part due to the gradual loss of civic virtue among its citizens. They had become weak, outsourcing their duties to defend their Empire to barbarian mercenaries, who then became so numerous and ingrained that they were able to take over the Empire. Romans, he believed, had become effeminate, unwilling to live a tougher, "manly" military lifestyle. He further blames the degeneracy of the Roman army and the Praetorian guards. In addition, Gibbon argued that Christianity created a belief that a better life existed after death, which fostered an indifference to the present among Roman citizens, thus sapping their desire to sacrifice for the Empire. He also believed its comparative pacifism tended to hamper the traditional Roman martial spirit. Lastly, like other Enlightenment thinkers, Gibbon held in contempt the Middle Ages as a priest-ridden, superstitious, dark age. It was not until his own age of reason and rational thought, it was believed, that human history could resume its progress. Gibbon sees the primary catalyst of the empire's initial decay and eventual collapse in the Praetorian Guard, instituted as a special class of soldiers permanently encamped in a commanding position within Rome, a seed planted by Augustus at the establishment of the empire. As Gibbon calls them at the outset of Chapter V: The Praetorian bands, whose licentious fury was the first symptom and cause of the decline of the Roman empire... He cites repeated examples of this special force abusing its power with calamitous results, including numerous instances of imperial assassination and demands of ever-increasing pay.
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Quote from 151:

However unlikely it may be, if 401k and iIRA money is taken over, what is the most likely way it would be handled?

Would all access to that money be cut off?

Would only the cash be cut off?

What if I own, in my ira, a real estate company? Will some goverment office actually have acces to my rental property and I might not?
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As unlikely as says nationalization of the banks.

If the federal government fully controls the vaults where the assets are stored..how much farther is it to control the assets.

And remember.. the pain will be so bad you will want them to nationalize. When you have nothing to retire on.. what do you care if the government offers the devils pact of a guaranteed retirement account if you turn over your pension.

Right now its a call to arms..next years it your last best hope.

This is how socialism creeps in. People who are willing to sell their children's prosperity and freedoms for the benefits of today.


To address directly your concerns of how nationalization would work.

IMF has a study as one of the required acts in a meltdown along with capital controls,

also see how Argentina just did it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/business/worldbusiness/22argentina.html?ref=business
Argentina Nationalizes $30 Billion in Private Pensions
They did it to protect citizens.

"According to the plan, all the assets in individual accounts would be transferred to the state’s “pay as you go” system, and affiliation to the state system would be mandatory, effectively putting an end to the current dual system."



Bottom line it will be a combo of
- revoking the tax deferred status, thereby confiscating all due taxes,
- Offer a carrot approach of maintaining your tax deferral or just outright make non taxable by converting to a government account, with stronger capital restriction, and a very meager return well blow the inflation rate .
- Our nationalize all gains and you can withdraw principal and be taxed.
- If not enough people go with the plan, look for those who oppose it to painted as greedy wall streeters and mutual funds, how want to simply make money from your pensions.
 
Quote from lrm21:

This is how socialism creeps in. People who are willing to sell their children's prosperity and freedoms for the benefits of today.
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And picking the pockets of the guy above them. With the new tax "cuts" and "rebates" for people who don't pay taxes, nearly half of us don't pay any income taxes. Well shit, if some other sucker is paying the bill, might as well order lobster and caviar for dinner. Better get two lobsters, who knows if just one will fill you up.

The economy goes South and the markets start to crack up. What do the people do? Elect the most liberal, socialist government the US has ever had. After a long history of growing government and debt, we have reached a deficeit that cannot be comphrended by the average mind. The markets tank, the economy is poised on the brink of a depression and the people want more socialism, bigger government, more taxes on "the rich".
 
Quote from destroyerofall:

People like this that are hoping for a revolution BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE LESS MONEY, ARE STUPIDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. Especially when you'd have savages like me running around, MURDERING EVERYONE IN SIGHT AND THATS MY FUCKING WORD.

There are all kinds of revolution, including peaceful ones where the will of the people overcome even corrupt bureaucrats.

I personally have observed the phenomenon know as people with "Alligator mouths and grasshopper asses"....usually that type comes up with some excuse like "belly ache" to keep out of duty or they are the first to cry out for Mommy.


AND EVEN I HOPE I NEVER SEE THAT DAY,

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR DIP***S. AND REALIZE THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THEN MONEY.

If you were fortunate enough to attend school whether it was on the public nickel or your parents you might want to consider asking for a refund. If you are going to say something spit it out, you were already in for a little why not go for the gold?


OH AND TALKING ABOUT SHEEPLE, JUST WHAT RIGHTS ARE YOU LOSING???? YOU STILL LIVE IN OF THE BEST COUNTRIES OUT THERE, PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SILL FAT, AND WHERE I LIVE I STILL SEE BUYING, PIGGING OUT AND GROCERY CARTS BEING STUFFED TO THE TOP.


As to this being "IN OF THE BEST COUNTRIES OUT THERE", I use to believe that but I no longer hold that belief. I am glad that you do though as you should hang onto your dreams as long as possible. I believe that it could be again, but it would take a large effort by many to turn it around.

You equate a full belly with rights? I do not believe that I mentioned "rights" anywhere in that post.

When was the last time you went to your local courthouse? I remember that we use to be able to walk in, see whatever person in whatever department without being asked for "papers" or being scanned or worse at the door. The government is getting more and more control over your and my life everyday and when you realize this maybe you will want to rethink your position. The government is supposed to be controlled by the people not the other way around.

DO PEOPLE LIKE YOU HAVE ANYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY CLUE WHAT THINGS WOULD BE LIKE IF WE HAD A REVOLUTION. WOW WHERE DO U PEOPLE COME FROM.

Yes, one very successful revolution was against the Vietnam War, another was civil rights. As to where I come from, in 1969 I swore an oath "to protect and defend this country and its constitution against it's enemies both foreign and domestic" before demonstrating it in combat. I still believe in that oath that was freely given. Some other people far more eloquent than I said it better than I could ever hope to say...perhaps you've heard it. It is called "The Declaration of Independence". If you find some time you really should read that document.

I am not advocating throwing out our system of government, but I am saying that it needs a house cleaning of the corruption that exists in it in all branches, departments and agencies. And the sooner we do this the better for all of us including our offspring that may end up "being slaves in their own country" as another gentleman stated.

GO BACK TO YOU ROOM, GET OFF YOUR PARENTS COMPUTER AND WONDER WHY YOUR LIFE IS SO MEANINGLESS AND TRY TO MAKE A POSTIVE DIFFERENCE IN THIS WORLD.

I'm touched by your care about the unauthorized use of "my parents computer" but they have been deceased for over 30 years.

I appreciate your point of view, but you make me question whether you are a shill for the government and are simply trying to derail this thread as so many threads about similar issues get derailed here quite frequently. This will be the only reply I make to you as I do not want this thread derailed. You are free to pm or email me at your choice to continue the discussion

btw...our form of government only "guarantees" rights, it does not grant them
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