Are you assessing a change in IB's mentality?
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If IB's Website Contains Falsehoods, Customers are SOL
- Thread starter himself
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Can't really go directly to the pit for compensation, and more than you can go directly to an ECN. That's the job of a broker.
This is not directly related to this incident, but to something that was said a couple of times:
I disagree with the often-espoused notion that a lost opportunity is somehow different from a real loss. Or that a missed entry is different from a missed exit. When I miss a trade because of a bad decision I make, my P&L is short by that amount at the end of the day. If I miss a trade because of a technology problem, my P&L is still short by that amount at the end of the day. It doesn't matter whether I miss the trade entirely, enter late/early, or exit late/early - it's all the same.
If I fail to sell silver at 10.399, and it closes at 10.333, and it was my intent to buy 10.333 and sell 10.399, I've missed 0.066 profit, regardless of whether I was opening a new short position or selling a long position.
This all assumes that one is being completely honest, and not using "20/20 hindsight", of course. I can understand the concern of the counterparty (in this case IB) over this, related to the "free option".
This is not directly related to this incident, but to something that was said a couple of times:
I disagree with the often-espoused notion that a lost opportunity is somehow different from a real loss. Or that a missed entry is different from a missed exit. When I miss a trade because of a bad decision I make, my P&L is short by that amount at the end of the day. If I miss a trade because of a technology problem, my P&L is still short by that amount at the end of the day. It doesn't matter whether I miss the trade entirely, enter late/early, or exit late/early - it's all the same.
If I fail to sell silver at 10.399, and it closes at 10.333, and it was my intent to buy 10.333 and sell 10.399, I've missed 0.066 profit, regardless of whether I was opening a new short position or selling a long position.
This all assumes that one is being completely honest, and not using "20/20 hindsight", of course. I can understand the concern of the counterparty (in this case IB) over this, related to the "free option".
Quote from alanm:
This all assumes that one is being completely honest, and not using "20/20 hindsight", of course. I can understand the concern of the counterparty (in this case IB) over this, related to the "free option".
Your concern for the counterparty should be assuaged by the knowledge that IB has the telephone records that indicate that when I called them it was not after a prolonged delay, and that the price was not much different from the stop price. Also, it later started to rally and concerned that I had been filled and that I had a naked short in a rising market, I entered a buy stop at the same price to protect me at breakeven.
Quote from Option Trader:
Are you assessing a change in IB's mentality?
Yes. There was one day a long time ago when INSTINET went down. In the pre-market, I entered about 10 orders into INSTINET and then tried to cancel them. I did did not receive any confirmations for the cancels. I called in to IB and the customer representative told me that the orders were most likely cancelled and they would get back to me later. I was not informed of the status of the positions until about an hour before the close (so it took about 7 hours). This was back during the bubble days. All of my orders were buys and the market tanked that day. My account size was not big and by the time all of the positions hit my account at about 3pm (at pre-market prices), IB's auto-liquidation procedures kicked in and it dumped about half of the account. I was eventually compensated for the loss based on a number of factors.
The customer agreement of today was put into place shortly after this incident as I believe many people were affected by this INSTINET problem. Given the current customer agreement, I doubt that I would have been compensated for my loss back then. It specifically addresses the issue of orders whose status is unknown.
I don't feel it's a solution for the big IB to make the little guy suffer for their own protection.
If one address bears the brunt of problems, i.e. IB, they will know how to protect themselves for next time. If the way to protect themselves is by making the customer responsible, there is theoretically no limit to the number that may suffer for the same problem.
If one address bears the brunt of problems, i.e. IB, they will know how to protect themselves for next time. If the way to protect themselves is by making the customer responsible, there is theoretically no limit to the number that may suffer for the same problem.
Quote from Option Trader:
I don't feel it's a solution for the big IB to make the little customer suffer instead.
If one address bears the brunt of problems, i.e. IB, they will know how to protect themselves for next time. If the way to protect themselves is by making the customer responsible, there is theoretically no limit to the number that may suffer for the same problem.
Optiontrader, In every thread that comes up where someone has a moan about IB you add your bleating to it. Bleat. Bleat. Bleat.
By now everyone knows you are pissed with IB because they said you were wrong. And everyone knows I like IB because they're a good fast cheap brokerage who suit experienced traders fine.
So why not give up the bleating. Everyone will think you are a loser who can't take responsibility for his own results. Yes, thats right, a loser
Get on with the real work - improving your trading, with IB or someone else. I don't care who, in fact if all the whiners, whingers, and bleaters left IB then they'd have more time to get on with running the system for traders.
kiwi trader,Quote from kiwi_trader:
Optiontrader, In every thread that comes up where someone has a moan about IB you add your bleating to it. Bleat. Bleat. Bleat.
By now everyone knows you are pissed with IB because they said you were wrong. And everyone knows I like IB because they're a good fast cheap brokerage who suit experienced traders fine.
So why not give up the bleating. Everyone will think you are a loser who can't take responsibility for his own results. Yes, thats right, a loser
Get on with the real work - improving your trading, with IB or someone else. I don't care who, in fact if all the whiners, whingers, and bleaters left IB then they'd have more time to get on with running the system for traders.
I love you too.
You never answered my question from the other thread: is it not true that you get compensated by IB as part of some type of ind. contractor relationship to handle their mess?
[If time were the issue, IB could simply respond to my questions in private forum--the same way others are being directed. Clearly, IB is stumped.]Quote from kiwi_trader:
I don't care who, in fact if all the whiners, whingers, and bleaters left IB then they'd have more time to get on with running the system for traders.
Quote from Option Trader:
kiwi trader,
I love you too.
You never answered my question from the other thread: is it not true that you get compensated by IB as part of some type of ind. contractor relationship to handle their mess?
No compensation. I just enjoy arguing with idiots like LJ when they put up wrong/false/stupid arguments.
I've never worked for any broker and now that I've learnt to trade (took a few years) I never plan to work for anyone else again. If I was IB I wouldn't actually appreciate most of my posts against their stupid detractors - goes against the professional calmness they normally try to retain. But I also suspect that I say a few things they'd love to say to some of the dickheads here.
But then I enjoy arguing with idiots almost more than I enjoy helping the humble beginner.
So why not take my advice and stop moaning about IB with each new thread (and get on with the real job of trading better) and leave IB if you're not happy with them.
If enjoyment is really your ONLY reason, then I don't know why you have questions on others who have that, PLUS their money at stake.Quote from kiwi_trader:
No compensation. I just enjoy arguing with idiots like LJ when they put up wrong/false/stupid arguments.
People usually don't brag about having low morals.Quote from kiwi_trader:But then I enjoy arguing with idiots almost more than I enjoy helping the humble beginner.
In short, IMO, your answers don't tally.