scientific research has determined that near-death experiences are nothing more than dreams.
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If I were the devil...
- Thread starter peilthetraveler
- Start date
You've illustrated there very well how ordinary imagination can develop into grand delusion.Quote from maxpi:
I'm not given to long winded arguments with people that desire to be willfully ignorant... I never go there... I do go where I can learn things for myself because I'm not a lazy puddle of pee with no desire to know anything but my already existing opinions... so I wind up in these prayer meetings where the leader gets the Devil to talk out of people, then we tell him to leave because we come in the authority of Jesus of Nazareth.. and the people get healed of stuff.. so I go to a lot of these meetings to see 1) what can I get over 2) what can I learn... I'm like that, I need healing for old wounds from childhood all the way up to yesterday and I need to know things...
I learned that the Devil gets to every person with lies, starting before we are born sometimes... that is the Micro level of control.. on the Macro level the Devil has been putting together an organization that runs the world in many regards... it's goal is to put the Anti Christ in the temple at Jerusalem, even though that temple doesn't exist currently, and to head the One World Government... strange that... the Devil can do all this because when we believe his lies we are in a deal with him and God is a perfect gentleman about those deals.. but he paid the price so we can break any and all of them just by uncovering them and putting them on the cross.... and Jesus LOVES to show what He can do, so when we put those lies on the cross and we ask Jesus to intervene in the affairs of the world he is freed up to do so moreso in our lives... there isn't anything that He doesn't want to fix or anybody He doesn't want to help and save but we have to ask... and we have to ask correctly to some extent... that's what the Lord's Prayer is about, not to mention the entire New Testament and much of the Old Testament..
But good luck anyway with your voodoo style group phsycosis and that particular version of the Jerusalem syndrome.
Just as long as you don't hurt anyone.
I see what you mean.Quote from Ricter:
I don't mean that reasoning doesn't work. I only mean that, for many people, it is not enough. It simply does not meet everyone's needs entirely.
Then people for whom reason is not enough, should not try to reason those needs .
It's not a case of convincing them their needs are wrong. It is a case of pointing out they are being deceitful and dishonest in claiming those unreasoned (religious) needs (delusions) are reasoned, or reasonable, for that matter.
Quote from stu:
I see what you mean.
Then people should not try to reason those needs.
It's not a case of convincing them their needs are wrong. It is a case of pointing out they are being deceitful and dishonest in claiming those unreasoned (religious) needs (delusions) are reasoned. Or reasonable, for that matter.
I tend to agree. Thankfully, most of those folks are not trying to build bridges or aircraft based only on perceptions and emotions related to those needs.
I think their current reaction and intensity stem from the attempts to invalidate their experience by those without a spiritual instinct. Clumsily, they fall back on a scripture, which typically results in literalism.
Rictor, what is the spiritual instinct? That is like instinct to survive? All people have that. For example 8 people on a boat. A storm is making the boat full with water. Everyone is very afraid, everyone only think how to survive. Some people have less fear because they pray to not drown, but EVERYONE is pushing the water out of the boat with their hands, filling shoes to take the water out, using their hats, using anything to get the water out. They go to land and survive. They survive from the prayer, or they survive because they take the water out AND the storm did not last a long time? Some people say it was the prayer. They feel very special, and feel spiritual and happy. Some people feel very lucky and grateful.
Quote from stu:
trendlover,
I think it's fair to say, Spiritual is the idea that sentience is magic.
http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/sentience.htm
I am not sure what you are saying stu. But I think you are saying to be spiritual (magic) is to believing something will help you that people can not help you with. And that is comfort. But really it is effort, or lucky, or random things of time.
But I see how prayer can take a fear away when someone think they will die. When they do not die, they think because it is the prayer, they are special. But not really. Just lucky, or good effort, or both. No magic.
Well sort of.Quote from trendlover:
http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/sentience.htm
I am not sure what you are saying stu. But I think you are saying to be spiritual (magic) is to believing something will help you that people can not help you with. And that is comfort. But really it is effort, or lucky, or random things of time.
But I see how prayer can take a fear away when someone think they will die. When they do not die, they think because it is the prayer, they are special. But not really. Just lucky, or good effort, or both. No magic.
What I'm saying trendlover is, to be spiritual is actually to imagine there is mysterious magic behind the outcome of any experience one cares to pick out.
So the faculty through which the external world is apprehended (sentience) by those with a spiritual instinct, will by definition fly in the face of any reasoned evidence to the contrary, because they reason -- reason is never sufficient!
It is said understanding certain things cannot be via reason as reason is not enough. But then contradictorily there are attempts to reason it is a good thing not being able to understand the why or how of certain outcomes or experiences (but you must display gratitude for them), because they are often provided by the magical deceptions of a Giant Cloud Wizard.
Obviously (as the reasoning goes!) sentience cannot be reasoned, it is a spiritual thing (magic).
When all the time spiritual instinct really, is a human emotion. A particular reaction to events and thought. Imaginations of magic.
Quote from stu:
Well sort of.
What I'm saying trendlover is, to be spiritual is actually to imagine there is mysterious magic behind the outcome of any experience one cares to pick out.
When all the time spiritual instinct really, is a human emotion. A particular reaction to events and thought. Imaginations of magic.
Yes. Like if I plant the zinnia flower. And that flower likes alot of sun to grow wide with many flowers. But I put the flower in the place with some sun, but more shade. The flower does not grow wide, but grows very tall and not wide. I can (imagine) the flower is growing very tall to reach to god, or I can understand the flower grows tall and not wide because it will grow tall to be close to the sun when it does not get enough of the sun. Now I know to put the flower in more sun next time, so it is wider and have more flowers, and healthier.